Sorry, this thread is getting bad, like sub woofers. The lowest note on a piano is 27.5Hz I can hear this perfectly on my speakers (my wife has a grand) is there any reason to hear lower and louder?
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You are judging without having experienced good subwoofers. While I prefer speakers which don't need SW, I know where from your judgement comes. I agree, most SW (esp. home cinema ones) are indeed horrible, really, really bad. But that doesn't makes all of them bad. Most SW are too high in level and folks are mighty impressed by the huge BOOOM! they deliver. That's of course an effect that runs boring very quickly. But again, that's not fault of the SW, that's a fault of setting, placement and ignorance. But with your stance and unwillingness to experience a good system, you are part of the problem too.
If I have to push the piano around in the room, it does not change all that much. I f i push a speaker around the room in mono, it does not change much either. I if I switch to stereo then there is a huge difference when both speakers play the same sound, effectively dual mono. Depending on position you find dips and valleys more so than single mono. For those who enjoy these effects, good for them. If you find that you would enjoy being hit by a bus, play in the traffic. I mostly use headphones so shaking the furniture around has never been an ambition. They even make bass shakers for that purpose.
Beside pretty good headphones I still equalise them for getting the sound that I want. It is about hearing and enjoying the music. Some genres I equalise differently. I use EQ APO and save settings for different genres. At times listening I go back and fine tune the settings, so whatever is good for the goose does not necessarily please the gander. My better (actually worse) half was a music teacher most of her life, and she would often ask what crap am I listening to. When I have the guts to explain it, she would shrug her shoulders and say, you bought it you listen to it.
I must admit, I have never heard a speaker, and I have had a couple in my lifetime that was not equalised in some way or another to produce how I liked it. If it does not sound what I like to hear, I change it. BTW I don't own TVs or entertainment systems, I outlived that. There is a 32"TV somewhere in the garage, if it was not chucked out. I do not subscribe to audio services that makes you lazy. I like the ritual of playing LPs. On a Friday I go through the collection of what I want to listen to on the week end. I only listen to my PC like now playing with the computer through the equaliser. I use a headphone amp and HD800s while my cat is lying on my mouse arm. I also listen to CDs on an ancient Wadia, not for its sound but mechanical integrity. I have a few speakers but what I like best is the Rogers LSD3/5a it sounds just the way I want it. The bass a little lifted but not too much. Every time my brother visited he drooled over my turn table I bought in the seventies (he is an audiophile by definition) and I only using my equally ancient Pink Triangle now. I am no audiophile any longer, I don't think I can hear much over 10KHz. I cannot stand the factory sound system in my car and only listen to traffic reports and news although it is claimed to be okay. In my old age I became very fussy I guess. If the background music in a restaurant irritates me I leave, same as a movie theatre. That's me for now. I like reading the comments although it won't make me change my view. Thanks to all contributing to DIY, it is really good reading.
And will begin to weaken it depending on what is intended to begin with. There is such a thing as too much rebar. Structural harmony is just that. Same with the concrete aggregate size and balance.
Okay, I'ma gonna hand this one over to stv.
1) When the driver is at its excursion limits and max power handling. Or, pick a measured-known-value less than max on those two where the driver's performance is more linear, before it starts to fall apart towards maximum excursion. That volume is optimal.
2) Yes, if its more sensitive, more SPL for power.
Very best,
Ok , I must have stated the band pass range I think to narrow the choices , by reading your responses my question was too open.
Let's set the Bandpass
30 to 90Hz
Or 40 to 90Hz
That's my area of interest
Above that I don't care.
Normally I have seen that I hit Xmax before Max power.
Is there instances of the opposite ? Maybe on mid freq enclosures or kick cabs.
Let's set the Bandpass
30 to 90Hz
Or 40 to 90Hz
That's my area of interest
Above that I don't care.
Normally I have seen that I hit Xmax before Max power.
Is there instances of the opposite ? Maybe on mid freq enclosures or kick cabs.
With a limited bandpass, you could explore systems that maximize SPL for input power, such as bass reflex, bandpass (4th order, 6th order) or a horn design. So you would model them and pick the one that is the best compromise of output for cabinet size, assuming they all can be made to be flat from 30hz to 90hz (which they pretty much all can, except maybe the bandpass boxes, they likely won't get 90hz if they're able to get 30hz).
Very best,
If size is not limitation and the Bandpass is 30-90 or 40-90hz
And assuming 2pi radiation (outside in the floor)
Since size is not limitation the Acceptable level will be te maximum SPL possible, as I know there is a point that making the volume of the cab bigger will not make the SPL increase.
What is that point?
30-90 is okay if you use a pair of TL seperated by the harmonic. But that second resonance sure is ‘loud’ And annoying!
Just a quick comparison, focusing on 30hz to 90hz.
SQL-15 driver
Bass Reflex at 30hz (4 ft^3)
4th Order (4 ft^3 total between two chambers)
6th Order (6.5 ft^3 total between two chambers)
Ultimately I think for such a broad bandwidth, 30hz to 90hz, the only options to get something close to flat in that range is bass reflex, horn and sealed (heavily boosted). Efficiency wise, the bass reflex and horn will get there more efficiently.
Forgive me I'm not skilled at simulating horns yet.
Very best,
SQL-15 driver
Bass Reflex at 30hz (4 ft^3)
4th Order (4 ft^3 total between two chambers)
6th Order (6.5 ft^3 total between two chambers)
Ultimately I think for such a broad bandwidth, 30hz to 90hz, the only options to get something close to flat in that range is bass reflex, horn and sealed (heavily boosted). Efficiency wise, the bass reflex and horn will get there more efficiently.
Forgive me I'm not skilled at simulating horns yet.
Very best,
You write you know there is a point where making the volume of the cab bigger will not make the SPL increase, and then you ask what that point is...
I'd guess that there would be little increase in SPL after the horn mouth width would approach a wavelength, so around 38 feet (11.6meters) wide and two to four times the length would be "getting there".
A bass horn with a mouth 38 feet (11.6meters) wide would make this horn built in 1922 for a one inch exit driver look tiny by comparison.
Art
Art,
That is a FLH right ?
TH is the same ?
And what about for a BR cabinet, BR do not follow the same principles as a horn right ?
That is a FLH right ?
TH is the same ?
And what about for a BR cabinet, BR do not follow the same principles as a horn right ?
The range in cabinet volume that produces an acceptable result depends heavily on the Thiele–Small parameters of the driver. It's often possible to achieve a much-extended bass response by doubling the enclosure volume and adjusting the port tuning. This might only reduce the output in the passband by 1dB or so, compared to a standard QB3/B4 vented-box alignment. Further increases in bass extension by increasing box volume will generally lead to a peak around the port resonance frequency, with a droop of a dB or two above the port frequency.
Assuming that both drivers can handle the 100W of power, then all other things being equal, the 96dB rated driver will produce 6dB more SPL than the 90dB rated driver.
Well, if the music contains bass content that is lower in frequency than 27.5Hz, then it seems useful to hear lower frequencies than that. Bass frequencies lower than 27.5Hz aren't all that common, but they do show up from time to time. An example is shown below.
For the same −3dB cut-off frequency, the transient response of a sealed enclosure is better than that which can be obtained from a typical bass reflex enclosure. Of course, there is a wide range of low-frequency alignments in both the closed-box and the vented-box spheres of application. Be that as it may, there isn't all that big a difference in sound quality, once we have adjusted for level differences and cut-off frequencies. "Tighter" sounding bass from a closed-box system is often the result of less bass output.
If you tighten the skin off a bass drum, its sound changes dramatically. Why would a speaker behave any different.
Yes, a very large FLH.
No, a FLH encloses the driver in a compression chamber, a TH combines the front and rear wave of the driver through two different resonant "horn" (air column) paths.
Right, a horn is an acoustic impedance transformer and also can provide directivity control down to a low frequency if large enough.
A BR is a Helmholtz resonator.
Ic , and a BR let's says for a single 18" can't be as large as 900L or 1400L cause at around 300-500L it will bet not beneficial to keep increasing volume right ? Just a waste of wood.
And I'm talking about the 30-90Hz passband or 40-90
HT BR that goes as low as 20 or 15 is not on my bucket list 😁
And I'm talking about the 30-90Hz passband or 40-90
HT BR that goes as low as 20 or 15 is not on my bucket list 😁