pjpoes said:
Here. Great stuff!
http://www.abbotpaint.com/itemdetails.cfm/2185943/Mirka Abranet 4-1/2
Thanks, that stuff looks quite interesting. So how bad of an idea would it be to sand these things best I can for now. Seal them up, do a good but not obsessive job leveling them out, and then doing a good, but again, not obsessive job painting them the satin black, with the idea that I will go back and redo the finish better at a later date when its warmer outside and I'm less busy with school.
First, does going this route create any irreversible effects on the cabinet making a more perfect finish impossible? Second, while I know I may not be so motivated to refinish them once they are finished, is there any other reason why I can't.
First, does going this route create any irreversible effects on the cabinet making a more perfect finish impossible? Second, while I know I may not be so motivated to refinish them once they are finished, is there any other reason why I can't.
I went a bit of a different route when it came to filling in the pocket screw holes. They make hole plugs, the common brand being Kreg. Glued these in, sand flush and the fill and sand before paint.
My finish was quite different than normal. I used the truck bed liner. I didn't spend nearly the time as normal preping for a painted finish. I would recommend to anyone else considering the truck bed liner to spend the proper time for surface prep.
My finish was quite different than normal. I used the truck bed liner. I didn't spend nearly the time as normal preping for a painted finish. I would recommend to anyone else considering the truck bed liner to spend the proper time for surface prep.
My 2 cents ,,
Formica ,
yes Formica the cabinet , this will give you a perfect flat surface to paint .. You can sand edges to be flushed with yours. then prime with a poly finish , sem-prime for eg, you will have a rock hard surface ... Sand and then paint with dupont for eg.
This will give you a perfect finish and it is the most cost effective way to do painted finishes , like a Piano finish ...
Regards ,
Formica ,
yes Formica the cabinet , this will give you a perfect flat surface to paint .. You can sand edges to be flushed with yours. then prime with a poly finish , sem-prime for eg, you will have a rock hard surface ... Sand and then paint with dupont for eg.
This will give you a perfect finish and it is the most cost effective way to do painted finishes , like a Piano finish ...
Regards ,
I would think this would suffer from the same problems as the wood idea. First, it won't bend around the roundovers on the speaker cabinet, so you wouldn't be covering the most important area. Second, it won't adhere to the cabinet any better, and thus will still benefit from a vacuum press. In the event that it does start to come lose, I would also think its resonance would be less than desirable.
As mentioned earlier though, it was just a thought on my part, and I won't be doing any of that. Right now I'm just taking the time to fill all the holes and imperfections before sanding again. I've been using bondo in the large openings, including repairing the damaged panels. I'm using the surfacing putty for the smaller and finer imperfections such as the glue joints around all the corners. While they were all pretty tight, I figure it can't hurt to spread some putty around all the edges to get them as clean and smooth as possible before sealing.
As mentioned earlier though, it was just a thought on my part, and I won't be doing any of that. Right now I'm just taking the time to fill all the holes and imperfections before sanding again. I've been using bondo in the large openings, including repairing the damaged panels. I'm using the surfacing putty for the smaller and finer imperfections such as the glue joints around all the corners. While they were all pretty tight, I figure it can't hurt to spread some putty around all the edges to get them as clean and smooth as possible before sealing.
Formica will bond well and won't bleed like veneer , even foil back veneer does this to a degree .
In your case the formica should have been applied , then the box edges would have been beveled after applying the formica.
To formica , would have saved you tons of " body Work " and would have required less sealing to paint... remember to scuff and sand where it meets your rounded edges. The sem prime will seal and build up nicely for you sand to a perfect finish .
Granted where you are now with your beveled edges
and " body work " you are better off just poly-sem priming the wood , sand and paint , as you have already started in this direction ..
Formica Finish is what used to be done in the industry to speed up painted finishes and yes pre-laminated MDF was used to do this in construction .
In your case the formica should have been applied , then the box edges would have been beveled after applying the formica.
To formica , would have saved you tons of " body Work " and would have required less sealing to paint... remember to scuff and sand where it meets your rounded edges. The sem prime will seal and build up nicely for you sand to a perfect finish .
Granted where you are now with your beveled edges
and " body work " you are better off just poly-sem priming the wood , sand and paint , as you have already started in this direction ..
Formica Finish is what used to be done in the industry to speed up painted finishes and yes pre-laminated MDF was used to do this in construction .
Hi
Here are some advices on how to fix a veneer on a cabinet with rounded edges:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17238&highlight=backyard&page=7
These are some sort of JBL L300 clones
Unfortunately the veneer "direction" it has to be the same as the rounded edges, so you cannot have all the edges rounded.
Here are some advices on how to fix a veneer on a cabinet with rounded edges:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17238&highlight=backyard&page=7
These are some sort of JBL L300 clones
Unfortunately the veneer "direction" it has to be the same as the rounded edges, so you cannot have all the edges rounded.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Matt
Just paint them and be done with it. Listening is why you bought them not playing finish carpenter getting them veneered. There is no problem with a Shellac primer and any future paint, but you cannot paint some finishes over acylic. If you paint acrylic then you are pretty much stuck with that finish. But acrylic is what cars are painted with (albeit not water based). You can only do water based over water based, except some epoxies. Some of the best finishes that I have ever done were in acrylic.
But you must get some paint on all exterior surfaces and preferably some on the interior too before long as the wood will begin to absorb some moisture when the weather changes and this can cause some dimensional changes. With MDF its important to seal it as soon as possible.
I've also use Goskers method of pluging the holes with a wood plug. I would be a little suspicious of Bondo on thoise deep holes unless you let it cure for a week or so. Bondo is not the best filler for wood.
Just paint them and be done with it. Listening is why you bought them not playing finish carpenter getting them veneered. There is no problem with a Shellac primer and any future paint, but you cannot paint some finishes over acylic. If you paint acrylic then you are pretty much stuck with that finish. But acrylic is what cars are painted with (albeit not water based). You can only do water based over water based, except some epoxies. Some of the best finishes that I have ever done were in acrylic.
But you must get some paint on all exterior surfaces and preferably some on the interior too before long as the wood will begin to absorb some moisture when the weather changes and this can cause some dimensional changes. With MDF its important to seal it as soon as possible.
I've also use Goskers method of pluging the holes with a wood plug. I would be a little suspicious of Bondo on thoise deep holes unless you let it cure for a week or so. Bondo is not the best filler for wood.
Oh well now you tell me. Well I've been using wood glue to fill initially, it seems to cure fine within 24 solid hours. Then I add bondo, and finally the finishing glaze. It seems to be working, but we will see.
We have had a sudden weather change for the worse, and its extremely cold right now. My garage heater can only get the garage up to around 50 degrees, so I'm not sure what I can do until this weekend. I'm going to try using an electric heater with the other one and see if I can't get it a bit warmer to do some work. 50 degree's in the garage is cold enough to get me a bit sore a bit too quick. It's supposed to be -12 tomorrow, so it's going to be even worse then.
Anyway, time to get them sanded I guess.
We have had a sudden weather change for the worse, and its extremely cold right now. My garage heater can only get the garage up to around 50 degrees, so I'm not sure what I can do until this weekend. I'm going to try using an electric heater with the other one and see if I can't get it a bit warmer to do some work. 50 degree's in the garage is cold enough to get me a bit sore a bit too quick. It's supposed to be -12 tomorrow, so it's going to be even worse then.
Anyway, time to get them sanded I guess.
Matt
Sorry about the Bondo thing, I thought that it was well know not to use it too thick and that it will change a little in the early days. From what I know it stabalizes after a few days. I haven't had terrible results, but large lumps of it are the worst case.
I think that its really best NOT to work in cold places. I've had no end of problem in my basement workroom unless I heat it. The wood expands and contracts quite readily. I'll bet this is why Wilson went to composites as they don't do this nearly as much. With very thick polished finishes I don't think that MDF is stable enough. Of course they say its for the sound, but my bet is on the finish.
Sorry about the Bondo thing, I thought that it was well know not to use it too thick and that it will change a little in the early days. From what I know it stabalizes after a few days. I haven't had terrible results, but large lumps of it are the worst case.
I think that its really best NOT to work in cold places. I've had no end of problem in my basement workroom unless I heat it. The wood expands and contracts quite readily. I'll bet this is why Wilson went to composites as they don't do this nearly as much. With very thick polished finishes I don't think that MDF is stable enough. Of course they say its for the sound, but my bet is on the finish.
well like I said, the deepest parts of the crevice are filled with glue. I did this indoors, so that cured at 70 degrees. The bondo was then put into the hole after 24 hours to fill the majority of the rest of the gap. However this wasn't done in one large lump, I did it in layers (the stuff dries pretty quick). The only thing I'm doing outside is sanding at the moment. I did manage to get the temp up to 65 in there though, so maybe I can spray a sealer on after all.
The crossover parts came today. I'm just going to go over the rear panels with a 320 sandpaper real quick. Seal those up, and get them painted first so I can get the crossovers made. Then I will finish the enclosures.
At this point I am just being overly meticulous as I probably could go over them with some finer grit sandpaper, seal them up, and do my final finish work at that point.
At this point I am just being overly meticulous as I probably could go over them with some finer grit sandpaper, seal them up, and do my final finish work at that point.
gedlee said:
Hi Earl,
Ant (ShinOBIWAN) and myself have been scratching our heads over this problem for quite a while (both of us have been working with cabinets where sheets of MDF are laminated, and the cut edges results in lines in the paint).
Ant has had some success with skinning the faces with a thin veneer. I can't do that, as the stuff I'm working on is (very) curved.
I've found success using a 2 part urethane automotive paint (called Isolack). I spray the paint on as a primer (the MDF will soak up loads) then after drying I sand, then apply another few coats. The problem is that's it's nasty stuff (isocyanate based). A coating of West System epoxy works too, but it needs to be fairly thick, and it's very messy to use.
John (MJL21193) claims success using a single part urethane clear coat as a sealer (Varathane I think), and then using a water based colour coat (again, if I recall correctly). Unfortunately, I can't get the urethane in the UK, so I've been unable to replicate his results.
In all cases, it's imperative to ensure the MDF is dry before it's primed and painted. I'll keep a box in the room where it's going to be eventually used for at least a week before it's painted. Otherwise the movement will cause havoc on the paint finish.
Having had so much trouble I scoured the internet for opinions and found that the cabinet makers almost unanimously recommended Shellac primer like Zinser Bins - the smelly alcohol based stuff. I have used this before and liked it very much (mostly on walls to seal water stains and such). I am sure that this would be a good method, although I haven't yet had a chance to try it on unfinished MDF. I will in the next week or so. I'll report back.
I'm not sure if its the same stuff, but I'm using Zinser bins Wood sealer, which is shellac. I just got through spraying the rear panels and insides of the three cabinets. I used up 3/4's of my 1 quart can to do this. Does this sound right? I figured I would have some left over. Admittedly I had the gun adjusted wrong and it was spraying with too much fluid initially, but the wood soaked it up. I've heard that you should keep spraying until it won't soak up anymore. At that rate I will have used many many gallons of this sealer.
I also need to get a better respirator mask. I didn't realize how bad this stuff would be, and I must say, shellac in your throat tastes pretty bad.
I also need to get a better respirator mask. I didn't realize how bad this stuff would be, and I must say, shellac in your throat tastes pretty bad.
pjpoes said:
That stuff is NOTHING compared to some other finishing products. It's excellent stuff tho. Using a lot is okay, you'll have a nicer cab for it. You won't need 'many many gallons', but MDF does soak up a lot. That's the whole problem, is it'll absorb moisture if given the opportunity, and swell. Do a lot of coats and go slow and you'll be fine.
Matt
Is the stuff that you use white? If its not then its not the right stuff. The white stuff has titanium dioxide in it which is a thickener and will fille the wood poors. I would not expect more than 1 Qt. per speaker.
The alchohol smells bad but isn't dangerous like the two part polyurethanes. That stuff is lethal.
Is the stuff that you use white? If its not then its not the right stuff. The white stuff has titanium dioxide in it which is a thickener and will fille the wood poors. I would not expect more than 1 Qt. per speaker.
The alchohol smells bad but isn't dangerous like the two part polyurethanes. That stuff is lethal.