Why do you say it's unsuitable for solid state amplifiers? I can't think of many (any) normal solid state designs which are in the least bit troubled by a 4ohm nominal impedace -you could drive it with a crystal radio. 
For reference, I've run Alpair 5 and CHN-50 (+ variations like the MAOP) on everything from a 1.5w 6SN7 integrated to a pair of ACA monoblocks to a pair of 500w class A/B monoblocks -my own standard amplifiers are a pair of 120w class D monoblocks and an 80w class A/B integrated. Narry the slightest issue -nor should there be, since there's nothing at all in the driver characteristics that would cause any.
For reference, I've run Alpair 5 and CHN-50 (+ variations like the MAOP) on everything from a 1.5w 6SN7 integrated to a pair of ACA monoblocks to a pair of 500w class A/B monoblocks -my own standard amplifiers are a pair of 120w class D monoblocks and an 80w class A/B integrated. Narry the slightest issue -nor should there be, since there's nothing at all in the driver characteristics that would cause any.
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The problem is excessive power of a solid state amplifier. A typical 4 Ohm-capable amp outputs 50-200 W into 4 Ohm load. A transient comes and destroys a 5 W speaker. Of course, there are low power (<10 W) SS amps, but those are usually 8 Ohms.
There is a thing called 'common sense' and another called a 'volume control'. 😉 If it were an issue, thousands of these drivers would have been destroyed over the last two decades, the world over. To date, I've personal knowledge of three pairs being wrecked by people being muppets and over-driving them -two from the same person who really didn't get the message, and that was through over-excursion rather than thermal issues. I haven't got the exact production numbers (although I can ask Thomas), but I do know that since its launch, well over 50,000 Alpair 5s & their varations have been produced. And I keep a close eye on what's happening in the field -it's part of my job after all.
This idea of 'you can't use a high powered amplifier with xyz drivers' is a very old one & has been doing the rounds since the '60s. Assuming the user has a modicum of mechanical sympathy and doesn't come it Captain Caveman (i.e. isn't 'a bit of a prat' 😉 ) it really isn't an issue. The same applies to all those units from Fostex, Tang Band, &c. How many do you hear going up in smoke? Almost none. Have a look at this forum and see how many people you find who've fried their drivers -these or equivalents. And not all of them are running hyper-low power SETs. In fact, the majority aren't. QED. The Markaudio units you're most likely to find having failed in the field are (were) actually the 1st generation Alpair 10s, which were designed using a much softer alloy cone than later models employed, and which occasionally warped under higher loads. Later models with a stiffer alloy & different cone profiles largely eliminated that -it also helped that as time went on, people became more used to drivers of this type (modest size, long nominal linear motor travel available), which, Jordans / Bandors apart, were quite rare prior to that.
For reference, the Alpair 5 & its sub-set drivers, like most Markaudio units, was specifically designed not to require amplifiers of that type. It really comes down to a bit of common sense on the part of the end user, the vast majority of whom have it, as you'd expect. They are not subwoofer drivers: they're 3in widebands. So you use them as such, just like equivalent units. And personally -I'd much rather have a surfit of power any day.
This idea of 'you can't use a high powered amplifier with xyz drivers' is a very old one & has been doing the rounds since the '60s. Assuming the user has a modicum of mechanical sympathy and doesn't come it Captain Caveman (i.e. isn't 'a bit of a prat' 😉 ) it really isn't an issue. The same applies to all those units from Fostex, Tang Band, &c. How many do you hear going up in smoke? Almost none. Have a look at this forum and see how many people you find who've fried their drivers -these or equivalents. And not all of them are running hyper-low power SETs. In fact, the majority aren't. QED. The Markaudio units you're most likely to find having failed in the field are (were) actually the 1st generation Alpair 10s, which were designed using a much softer alloy cone than later models employed, and which occasionally warped under higher loads. Later models with a stiffer alloy & different cone profiles largely eliminated that -it also helped that as time went on, people became more used to drivers of this type (modest size, long nominal linear motor travel available), which, Jordans / Bandors apart, were quite rare prior to that.
For reference, the Alpair 5 & its sub-set drivers, like most Markaudio units, was specifically designed not to require amplifiers of that type. It really comes down to a bit of common sense on the part of the end user, the vast majority of whom have it, as you'd expect. They are not subwoofer drivers: they're 3in widebands. So you use them as such, just like equivalent units. And personally -I'd much rather have a surfit of power any day.
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It is a bit of a non-issue really. You just have to know where the limits of the loudspeaker are and don’t turn it up higher. The MA will tell you when to turn it down long before you let the magic smoke out.
That doesn’t rule out catastrofic amplifier failure… any DC coupled amplifier could in theory … ie DC on the output. Clipping can do that too — the latter roasted more Advent tweeters than toouch power.
dave
That doesn’t rule out catastrofic amplifier failure… any DC coupled amplifier could in theory … ie DC on the output. Clipping can do that too — the latter roasted more Advent tweeters than toouch power.
dave
Yeah, there was a priceless story in an old issue of Speaker Builder (I think it was). One of those back-page opinion pieces. Bod went to an NY dealer, ~late '70s & saw a display of a wrecked McIntosh 3 way next to their latest power-amp & the sign 'so powerful the speakers caught fire'. Writer was immediately suspicious: flame damage all appeared to be on the outside & looked like it had been created via ye tride and trusty old blowtorch. So he set the management a challenge: he'd kill a pair of the same speakers using anything else in the store. Fools agreed. What did he do? Got the cheapest, nastiest low-power integrated with what he knew was a limp-wristed & fairly unstable PSU. Wired them up, took a random LP from their stock, stuck it on the turntable with the cheapest cart they had and literally dropped the arm & stylus from a height, bouncing it over the surface. Predictable happened: supply failed, DC jacked (briefly) to the speakers & the magic smoke was released. Internally. 😉 Cue some red faces. IIRC he was immediately banned from the store. Clearly no great loss.
It is not about playing at low or high volume. Transients can occur after volume control, eg selector switch, power surge, etc. I've read a story of a housemaid destroying a 10,000 pair of speakers. Turned on, no sound, so cranked up the volume all the way, no sound still, so started putzing with input selector, which the owner had on phono. When she hit the tuner - BAM! -both speakers destroyed. Just from common sense, I don't think its the best of the ideas to hook up a delicate 5 W speaker to a monster 200 W amp. Parkinson's law: if sheet can occur, it will occur.
With respect (sincere statement, no sarcasm intended or implied) it doesn't make any difference what you think. The facts are that over 50,000 of these drivers & their sub-sets have been produced, along with hundreds of thousands of equivalent sized & power-rated units from other manufacturers (e.g. Fostex) for decades now -some / many of which have significantly less mechanical travel available to them. Most of these drivers are not hooked up to hyper-low-power SET etc. amplifiers, and you do not see a tidal-flood of blown units. At the most, you see an occasional (as in one or two) failures in the field. Sorry -but that's just a fact, and I can't change that. Well -I'm not sorry at all, for obvious reasons: nobody wants to see that, with anything. Since I work with Markaudio & their distributors / dealers, I'm in a good position to know how many returns they & have, and the causes. And we don't see the kind of dire issues you're claiming, nor do you see mass complaints of blown units on forums either. You'll note I've also referred to other manufacturers, in case I'm accused of bias -and it's the same for them. So by common use / findings / consensus, it's really not an issue in practice.
I have no problem running a high power amp on a low power speakers. Quite the opposite. When I was a teenager, had some old SS amp, of around 30w. Speakers were replaced by the previous owner, and wererated at 60w.
I had damaged them twice, by upping the volume and the bass (both times, the damage occured while listening to the Prodigy).
Until a more knowleageble guy explained to me that it was because the amp was weak.
Back to the subject, I like fullrangers of all sizes. All of them have their strenghs and weaknesses. So all depends on what you can "tolerate". I like 3" ones because they sound smooth, but then, I (mostly) cannot get enough volume, and they are not efficient enough. 8" ones, sing, but also like to scream. 5" ones, neither here nor there, or a bit both here and there...
I had damaged them twice, by upping the volume and the bass (both times, the damage occured while listening to the Prodigy).
Until a more knowleageble guy explained to me that it was because the amp was weak.
Back to the subject, I like fullrangers of all sizes. All of them have their strenghs and weaknesses. So all depends on what you can "tolerate". I like 3" ones because they sound smooth, but then, I (mostly) cannot get enough volume, and they are not efficient enough. 8" ones, sing, but also like to scream. 5" ones, neither here nor there, or a bit both here and there...
Right -give me an excess of clean power any day over too little. You can always take it easy & the truth is many systems have nominal amplifier power ratings far in excess of the speakers. Assuming you've got a modicum of common sense, you're more likely to cause damage with, for e.g., too little power and clipping than over-driving.
This notion of 'matching amplifier powers' or some kind of rated impedance is a red herring -although once upon a time, the second of those did have some relevance, back when variable output impedance amplifiers were common, power cost a lot, and speaker sensitivies were very high as a result. But it wasn't for that reason.
This notion of 'matching amplifier powers' or some kind of rated impedance is a red herring -although once upon a time, the second of those did have some relevance, back when variable output impedance amplifiers were common, power cost a lot, and speaker sensitivies were very high as a result. But it wasn't for that reason.
The morning after a wild party, and no one can figure out why the speakers sound so dull. 😉
jeff
I’ve heard tales that at some of those parties there was much magic smoke consumed while testing the DSOTM /Wizard of Oz hypothesis.
The only drivers I ever smoked myself during 20 years of DIY futzing about was when one of my early SS kit builds (some group buy Nelson Pass class A clone, IIRC) failed and shorted out its full supply rail across the speaker outputs. Fostex FE127, and I can remember seeing the slight orange glow of the voice coil during its short life as space heater.
Also, even when in a hurry during a get together, don’t repeatedly hot switch the inputs on any amp directly connected to a full range driver. “That’s gonna leave a mark, Greg” 😵
The only drivers I ever smoked myself during 20 years of DIY futzing about was when one of my early SS kit builds (some group buy Nelson Pass class A clone, IIRC) failed and shorted out its full supply rail across the speaker outputs. Fostex FE127, and I can remember seeing the slight orange glow of the voice coil during its short life as space heater.
Also, even when in a hurry during a get together, don’t repeatedly hot switch the inputs on any amp directly connected to a full range driver. “That’s gonna leave a mark, Greg” 😵
Join the club. Very embarrassing to say the least. 😢
I've also replaced four (4) Kef T27's after a party (not one of mine). They definitely don't like clipping for extended periods.
jeff
Ive had paper cone and magnesium cone markaudio drivers. For me they are excellent value. I recomend upgrading with a tweeter to eleminate the treble breakup. It may seem counterintuitive but to me it was night and day better with a tweeter. If one was to go this route i would consider the chr120 because its the most bass capable.
Gregg’s mistake was to assume the AC would not drop as low as it did, a regulator failed and we lost a pair of FE126eN. The hot witching was Terry Olsen, RIP the first pair of EnABLed FE127 that Bud did up for us.
During some 45+ years the number of burned drivers could probably be counted on your fingers. The most prominate in my memory was the Audax 8” in the RS-4 went up, acrid white smoke came out the vent (a hot R in the XO caught the foam damping on fire). Bruston 4B, we were parting at the shop on a Fridy night wih John Greenbank the designer. Don and i had things playing again within 15 min.
dave
Indeed! I've seen more speakers damaged from having too little power than too much and best to have class A/B with ~10 W 'A' in most cases with 'full range' drivers, and 200 or more for 'B' to handle any 'fast' transients in some recordings and if one has some organ and/or uncompressed orchestra/whatever recordings it can require up to +30 dB/1kW (- the driver's eff. Vs average playback level in each case of course).
Facing the fact that thousands of 5 W drivers have not been destroyed by 200 W amplifiers over the last two decades, I change my mind and now is convinced that the more power the better. I admit that I was wrong. Please disregard what I posted earlier on the suitability of MAOP-5 for low power amplifiers
I was thinking of a SET for MAOP-5, but now abandon this stupid idea and instead consider a pair of Bruno Putzeys' kilowatt-range amplifiers. Thank you for opening my eyes. Sincerely.
I use a fosi monoblock on mine. Zero thermal issues. You would exceed xmax long before you burned a coil. Even if you highpass above 50hz. If you like tube sound, Even order harmonics are easy to come by these days. Pretty sure theres an app for that...
Back in the early 90s at the car stereo shop we'd hook up trashed speakers to the 120 volt AC line... directly. The big speakers would make a lot of noise and start smoking, catch fire, sometimes pop... and die.
There was this little 4 inch that sat there and buzzed for hours. We couldn't understand why the little ones would survive longer than the big ones.
I have some theories but I wonder what y'all might say...
There was this little 4 inch that sat there and buzzed for hours. We couldn't understand why the little ones would survive longer than the big ones.
I have some theories but I wonder what y'all might say...