The notion that changing power supply capacitor type can affect measurable distortion is absurd, do we even need to discuss it?
No existing metric relates in any sensible way to perceived capacitor sound, i thought this was common knowledge.
Respectable?
Midfi from the seventies had two orders of magnitude better distortion specs.
20 years was ample time for designers to realise that distortion specs are worse than meaningless. Worse as their pursuit often results in inferior perceived sound.
Anyway, plenty of other threads deal with these issues, i am done spamming this one. Apologies to the thread starter.
Tell about that "inferior sound" to the reviewers of the benchmark AHB2 which is the quietest amp with the least distortion in the world and which received universal critical acclaim.
It is obvious that you are a subjectivist who does not provide objective evidence to backup your golden ears. It is futile to engage in further discourse.
Benchmark AHB2 Power Amplifier - Benchmark Media Systems
Grendel321
Good Morning from USA.
We are talking about Mark Levinson here. Also Krell/Jeff Rowland etc.
Mark Levinson 331/332/333/334/335/336/33H and No.33. These amps need PSU cap replacement.The reason the way It is designed. Some of these amps went for cap replacement 3 to 4 times at ML service bench THEY WILL CHARGE OVER $2000 for cap replacement. The customers love the sound of 300 series designed by Mark not the new Harman 400 and 500 series. The 300 series was the best It will smoke Krell and McIntosh that is my opinion. Most of the high end amps like ML/KRELL/JEFF ROWLAND need cap replacement from the 90s When caps are replaced you will here a huge Improvement in sound that is a fact.
Now you never hear any cap problems from LUXMAN or ACCUPHASE from the 90s.
I have a Luxman R-1120 and Luxman L-507U from 2010. The Luxman 1120 from 70s i changed the PSU caps and resistors i saw a huge improvement In sound.
THE MARK LEVINSON 300 series do need cap replacement.
Thanks
Good Morning from USA.
We are talking about Mark Levinson here. Also Krell/Jeff Rowland etc.
Mark Levinson 331/332/333/334/335/336/33H and No.33. These amps need PSU cap replacement.The reason the way It is designed. Some of these amps went for cap replacement 3 to 4 times at ML service bench THEY WILL CHARGE OVER $2000 for cap replacement. The customers love the sound of 300 series designed by Mark not the new Harman 400 and 500 series. The 300 series was the best It will smoke Krell and McIntosh that is my opinion. Most of the high end amps like ML/KRELL/JEFF ROWLAND need cap replacement from the 90s When caps are replaced you will here a huge Improvement in sound that is a fact.
Now you never hear any cap problems from LUXMAN or ACCUPHASE from the 90s.
I have a Luxman R-1120 and Luxman L-507U from 2010. The Luxman 1120 from 70s i changed the PSU caps and resistors i saw a huge improvement In sound.
THE MARK LEVINSON 300 series do need cap replacement.
Thanks
Caps can be measured, can’t they ?
When still having 90% capacity and when ESR is still within spec’s, what could possibly be the reason to replace them.
My ML 20.6 from 1992 with its stabilized power supply is still doing great.
The 4 larger PSU caps still have flat tops and don’t get warm.
Why should I replace them ?
Hans
When still having 90% capacity and when ESR is still within spec’s, what could possibly be the reason to replace them.
My ML 20.6 from 1992 with its stabilized power supply is still doing great.
The 4 larger PSU caps still have flat tops and don’t get warm.
Why should I replace them ?
Hans
Does that service include the entire set of electrolytic caps?
From what i remember Krell used to charge $1800 for the KSA250 cap service but that did not include the main filter caps, which apparently never failed catastrophically (Powerlytic 36DE). 2k in comparison sounds almost like a deal.
Reg new cake yes the ripple is lower. But my point still remains the sound greatly improves.
I have modded an old Aragon 4004mkii
It had 18 k I lit in new 32k wow did it leap
But my speakers are demanding too.
New caps make the amp like new of all is done
Some just do the main psu. I don't I do all caps that are elec type.
My no 26 preamp was fine before new caps
Only two inputs sounded bad.
Once it was changed holy cow did it get better.
I'll post more tonight and thanks all for your input
I have modded an old Aragon 4004mkii
It had 18 k I lit in new 32k wow did it leap
But my speakers are demanding too.
New caps make the amp like new of all is done
Some just do the main psu. I don't I do all caps that are elec type.
My no 26 preamp was fine before new caps
Only two inputs sounded bad.
Once it was changed holy cow did it get better.
I'll post more tonight and thanks all for your input
FOR 331/332/333/334/335/336 IT IS $2000 PLUS SHIPPING. FOR 33H AND No.33 IT IS HIGHER BECAUSE MORE CAPS.
FOR KRELL KRS-200 SERIES AND KSA 100/200/250 THE ORIGINAL CAP WAS SPRAUGE AND MALLORY 40000uF/100V AND 40000uF/90V REPLACEMENT UNITED CHEMICON 47000uF/100V AT 95C SINCE SPRAUGE WAS PURCHASED BY UNITED CHEMICON IN 2000 SOME WERE SOLD TO VISHAY.
I SOLD 200 CAPS FOR KRELL KRS AND KSA 36DE403G100DF2A (40000uF/100V REPLACED BY UCC 47000uF/100V AT 95C MY PRICE $60 EACH. DIAMETER MUST BE 76mm AND 143mm LONG EXACT AS SPRAGUE.
KRELL BIG AMPS USES 40000uF/100V NOT HIGH LIKE ML336 50000uF/125V.
THANKS
FOR KRELL KRS-200 SERIES AND KSA 100/200/250 THE ORIGINAL CAP WAS SPRAUGE AND MALLORY 40000uF/100V AND 40000uF/90V REPLACEMENT UNITED CHEMICON 47000uF/100V AT 95C SINCE SPRAUGE WAS PURCHASED BY UNITED CHEMICON IN 2000 SOME WERE SOLD TO VISHAY.
I SOLD 200 CAPS FOR KRELL KRS AND KSA 36DE403G100DF2A (40000uF/100V REPLACED BY UCC 47000uF/100V AT 95C MY PRICE $60 EACH. DIAMETER MUST BE 76mm AND 143mm LONG EXACT AS SPRAGUE.
KRELL BIG AMPS USES 40000uF/100V NOT HIGH LIKE ML336 50000uF/125V.
THANKS
~ Exactly ~ doing the same work that Levinson factory service would perform [probably routinely so] is very straight forward... bringing the amps, back in or closer to target of original design.
I feel strongly as an imperative, to replace 'all capacitors hit hard by AC / ripple', they preformed their duty, warrant replacement. The caps on the driver, output stages, had a more gentle duty, life cycle. The (all caps?) on the front end AC regeneration / filter [not sure what to call it] the back of the chassis, given its role in the amp... (re; No.33, No.33H)
Much like a refined (aged) sports-car shows marked improvements...*new tires, new brakes, new shocks, new tie rod ends... all pretty standard stuff. My No.336 had to be recapped in 09~
Last edited:
Yes standard but some feel it's not needed. In fact I was on the phone with the man who made and designed my IRS v woofer amps
He said of there not leaking it's ok lol. The caps were 35 years old man
Yes the amps while 2000 watts were little into class a at idle.
After I changed caps it was greatly improved sonically.
And yes much lower ripple. Or even stopped the thump at power down.
In other amps it always resulted sonically better
Lower noise floor
Better bass control and better ext highs
As for measuring I measure the new caps too and compare to old caps ones
I always buy more and group them by capacity
Above there was a comment on sound of caps
Did you mean they don't sound different by brand or type ?
He said of there not leaking it's ok lol. The caps were 35 years old man
Yes the amps while 2000 watts were little into class a at idle.
After I changed caps it was greatly improved sonically.
And yes much lower ripple. Or even stopped the thump at power down.
In other amps it always resulted sonically better
Lower noise floor
Better bass control and better ext highs
As for measuring I measure the new caps too and compare to old caps ones
I always buy more and group them by capacity
Above there was a comment on sound of caps
Did you mean they don't sound different by brand or type ?
Well at idle the wings vary but Avg is about 95 f
Now when playing it's higher above 115 to 120 f
So inside it sure
I keep a boxer fan on top pulling hot air up there many reg chips on top
On the bottom I have two 4 inch boxer fans all 12 volts
Small CFM but they do make a big difference on top board
Went from 100 f to 75 f. I keep my room cold at 65 to 60
The amps if on not standby cook my room
It's big too.
20 feet wide
55 deep and 9 feet high
I do have other stuff cooking too. A tube dac
And 4 severs running in the winter I still need AC
My place is very well insulated and sound proofed as well
I own the building but can't make Tenent's hear my music all hours
Now when playing it's higher above 115 to 120 f
So inside it sure
I keep a boxer fan on top pulling hot air up there many reg chips on top
On the bottom I have two 4 inch boxer fans all 12 volts
Small CFM but they do make a big difference on top board
Went from 100 f to 75 f. I keep my room cold at 65 to 60
The amps if on not standby cook my room
It's big too.
20 feet wide
55 deep and 9 feet high
I do have other stuff cooking too. A tube dac
And 4 severs running in the winter I still need AC
My place is very well insulated and sound proofed as well
I own the building but can't make Tenent's hear my music all hours
You are absolutely correct Hans, any change which can be heard can also be measured as measuring instruments are immensely more sensitive than our ears. People who replace capacitors in perfectly functioning vintage audio gear never show any measurements before and after modding to backup their claims of so-called "sonic improvements". Without objective measurements, claimed sonic improvements should be viewed with extreme suspicion and derision.
Last edited:
Guys you keep posting of measurements as of its the be all if it's all about this let me ask all here this simple question. We all have favorite caps don't we ? Why would this be
Best lets go with a name brand and it's sound
Murndorf dark Slow in amps
Nicchicon better but not as fast or top end like others
Can anyone tell me how this can be measured. Please tell me how
Am I to assume anyone who does hear this are dumb or deaf.
As for using vintage gear on old caps good luck Remember you can't get parts they can kill.
Best lets go with a name brand and it's sound
Murndorf dark Slow in amps
Nicchicon better but not as fast or top end like others
Can anyone tell me how this can be measured. Please tell me how
Am I to assume anyone who does hear this are dumb or deaf.
As for using vintage gear on old caps good luck Remember you can't get parts they can kill.
No, not all of us have "favorite capacitors". Do you think the recording studio equipment with thousands of capacitors in the sound chain have your precious nichicons? Your claims of capacitors sounding, "dark", "slow", "top end" are objective statements which will vary from person to person and have no scientific basis in reality. For example can you really define as to what you mean by a "dark" sounding capacitor? Does it mean that a shiny and happy pop song played through it will sound depressing like death metal? Does the capacitor change the Major Chords to Minor Chords to make the music more "dark"?
Grendel321,
I’ve changed the caps in power amps for 30 years, usually to larger ones, in 4 krells, Hafler, Perreaux, usually with a big difference in sound quality. I didn’t measure them, I listen to them often enough to know what to expect, better dynamics, bass becomes more solid and deeper, greater smoothness. There are no meters that show that so entertain yourself with measurements and I’ll enjoy the music.
I’ve changed the caps in power amps for 30 years, usually to larger ones, in 4 krells, Hafler, Perreaux, usually with a big difference in sound quality. I didn’t measure them, I listen to them often enough to know what to expect, better dynamics, bass becomes more solid and deeper, greater smoothness. There are no meters that show that so entertain yourself with measurements and I’ll enjoy the music.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.