Here is what I was refering to on H frames.
#9
DaveCan
diyAudio Member
I'm not so sure of H-Frames used up into the vocal range mated with a full range driver on OB is a good thing. The H-Frame used as bass support in the under 80 hz region is very nice.. I would suggest using the Alpha on a flat baffle with sides behind rather than boxing in around the front wave of the driver as done in an H-Frame.. So a U frame of sorts I would guess.. In the H-Frame the driver is basically recessed with the depth of the box sides walling off the front wave of the driver, which to me smears the sound at the higher x-over levels...
I used the Goldwood 18'' driver in a flat open baffle as a test while awaiting to start on my H-Frames ,and it sounded nice up into the 100hz + region, however installed into the H-Frames with the 7'' or so of depth wrapped around the front of the driver, the sound was quite colored up over 80-90hz and very nice as a sub at 70 or so hz.. Very clean and natural bass tone with the x-over kept low..
I know that the H-Frame Jordon combo has a following and I'm not trying to take away from that, just relating the sound to me in my situation with a half OB half BIB set up using the 4'' driver pure and unfiltered in the BIB cabs ..
Next will be the Goldwoods on a flat u frame type baffle and the little Fostex drivers filtered , but that's a long ways off..
Good luck and enjoy.. The Goldwoods are also a good deal if you want to move up a bit in size or can etc.. BTW I love my 18'' Goldwood sub duty H-Frames even as placed near the wall.. The opening to the hall is`what lets me cheat the more usual placement and sounds really nice in here
#9
DaveCan
diyAudio Member
I'm not so sure of H-Frames used up into the vocal range mated with a full range driver on OB is a good thing. The H-Frame used as bass support in the under 80 hz region is very nice.. I would suggest using the Alpha on a flat baffle with sides behind rather than boxing in around the front wave of the driver as done in an H-Frame.. So a U frame of sorts I would guess.. In the H-Frame the driver is basically recessed with the depth of the box sides walling off the front wave of the driver, which to me smears the sound at the higher x-over levels...
I used the Goldwood 18'' driver in a flat open baffle as a test while awaiting to start on my H-Frames ,and it sounded nice up into the 100hz + region, however installed into the H-Frames with the 7'' or so of depth wrapped around the front of the driver, the sound was quite colored up over 80-90hz and very nice as a sub at 70 or so hz.. Very clean and natural bass tone with the x-over kept low..
I know that the H-Frame Jordon combo has a following and I'm not trying to take away from that, just relating the sound to me in my situation with a half OB half BIB set up using the 4'' driver pure and unfiltered in the BIB cabs ..
Next will be the Goldwoods on a flat u frame type baffle and the little Fostex drivers filtered , but that's a long ways off..
Good luck and enjoy.. The Goldwoods are also a good deal if you want to move up a bit in size or can etc.. BTW I love my 18'' Goldwood sub duty H-Frames even as placed near the wall.. The opening to the hall is`what lets me cheat the more usual placement and sounds really nice in here
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The peak I am hearing and will test in about 15 minutes with my tone generator is up past 5khz I am almost certain. I have the Alphas on individual plate amps and will try turning those down to see what changes occour. I have to set at 180hz at the moment.
I've heard the same thing about the "H" frames, but as this is my first OB woof, I think it couldn't get any better.
I've heard the same thing about the "H" frames, but as this is my first OB woof, I think it couldn't get any better.
OK, I just ran my tones through the system. This is all by ear....no equipment.
First with the woof crossed at 180hz and the 126 running. From 200hz to 1khz the sound was kind of muddy and peaky.
Then I turned the 126 off and just ran the woofs and they were strong up to 1.5khz then I turned the crossover points down to 50hz and they really started rolling off at 250hz.
Then with that set, I turned the 126s back on and it was a much smoother transition from 31hz clear up to 3.5khz at which point, there is an absolutly ear splitting peak, than at 4khz a big dip, then at 5khz clear up to 12khz it is almost as loud at the 3.5khz peak.
So basically, again just to my ear, from 3.5khz they are much louder than below that.
And of course I am adjusting the volume when I listen, to the loudest region.
If I could find a driver that would be flat from 200hz to 14.5khz (where my hearing stops) I thing these would sound much much better.
So.....I look at the CHR70 plot and it looks fairly flat from 200hz to beyond 15khz, but what is everyone else actually hearing?
First with the woof crossed at 180hz and the 126 running. From 200hz to 1khz the sound was kind of muddy and peaky.
Then I turned the 126 off and just ran the woofs and they were strong up to 1.5khz then I turned the crossover points down to 50hz and they really started rolling off at 250hz.
Then with that set, I turned the 126s back on and it was a much smoother transition from 31hz clear up to 3.5khz at which point, there is an absolutly ear splitting peak, than at 4khz a big dip, then at 5khz clear up to 12khz it is almost as loud at the 3.5khz peak.
So basically, again just to my ear, from 3.5khz they are much louder than below that.
And of course I am adjusting the volume when I listen, to the loudest region.
If I could find a driver that would be flat from 200hz to 14.5khz (where my hearing stops) I thing these would sound much much better.
So.....I look at the CHR70 plot and it looks fairly flat from 200hz to beyond 15khz, but what is everyone else actually hearing?
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I think you could live with CSS EL 70 or Mark Audio chr 70.
but I tell you the Silver Iris are light years ahead of
anything I have tried on open baffle,it is a smooth transition
with Iris handing off to alphas,with croosover point on plate amps turned
down to 50 hz the Iris easily fill that gap at the bottom you are hearing.
it is like the Iris & Alphas are made for each other.
if you can spend the extra cash go for the Silver Iris
you want look back I guarantee that.
but I tell you the Silver Iris are light years ahead of
anything I have tried on open baffle,it is a smooth transition
with Iris handing off to alphas,with croosover point on plate amps turned
down to 50 hz the Iris easily fill that gap at the bottom you are hearing.
it is like the Iris & Alphas are made for each other.
if you can spend the extra cash go for the Silver Iris
you want look back I guarantee that.
I have heard the Iris a couple times and agree that they are great drivers, but the cost and the existing baffles, which are kind of unique, that can't be moddified, make it out of reach.
At this point, I just need to find something that is, more or less, a drop in replacement for the 126.
The Silver Iris....that is a whole nother project, but still remains on my list.
At this point, I just need to find something that is, more or less, a drop in replacement for the 126.
The Silver Iris....that is a whole nother project, but still remains on my list.
Alan Elsdon popped over for a demo recently, and apart from a good social we were keen to hear each other's equipment. He also brought his Buffalo DAC as I have wanted to try a decent DAC with my Squeezebox Touch.
I asked Alan if he'd mind me posting pictures of his speakers. He didn't have a problem provided I pointed out they were not finished!
Please excuse the poor quality images, they were intended to be shown to my wife for pre-approval, but I thought I'd post them for all to see.
Just over a year ago I built a pair of Brine's FT1600 MKII speakers. I have recently had the desire to build a different design, and have been keen to compare another in my living room, especially after hearing the Maeshowes at Alan's house a couple of weeks ago. The Maeshoews didn't disappoint!
We felt both designs require a tweeter to add a touch more top end sparkle. The Brine's midrange was fuller bodied and slightly airier, but...the biggest surprise was that the tiny CHR-70 drivers appeared to deliver a punchier bass than the FE167s, and sounded a shade more dynamic as a result. As we increased the volume on my Pass F5 amplifier there was a greater bass presence with the Maeshowes, but less so with the Brines. Would someone happen to have a suggestion on how I could tweak the Brines to improve this, or is this just part of the speakers signature?
Certain vocals appeared to have a slightly smaller scale with the Maeshowes, but there wasn't a great deal in it. Alan's going to try adjusting the stuffing this weekend as he feels he may be able to improve his mid range.
I asked Alan if he'd mind me posting pictures of his speakers. He didn't have a problem provided I pointed out they were not finished!
Please excuse the poor quality images, they were intended to be shown to my wife for pre-approval, but I thought I'd post them for all to see.
Just over a year ago I built a pair of Brine's FT1600 MKII speakers. I have recently had the desire to build a different design, and have been keen to compare another in my living room, especially after hearing the Maeshowes at Alan's house a couple of weeks ago. The Maeshoews didn't disappoint!
We felt both designs require a tweeter to add a touch more top end sparkle. The Brine's midrange was fuller bodied and slightly airier, but...the biggest surprise was that the tiny CHR-70 drivers appeared to deliver a punchier bass than the FE167s, and sounded a shade more dynamic as a result. As we increased the volume on my Pass F5 amplifier there was a greater bass presence with the Maeshowes, but less so with the Brines. Would someone happen to have a suggestion on how I could tweak the Brines to improve this, or is this just part of the speakers signature?
Certain vocals appeared to have a slightly smaller scale with the Maeshowes, but there wasn't a great deal in it. Alan's going to try adjusting the stuffing this weekend as he feels he may be able to improve his mid range.
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Hi
The room is a reasonable size for a UK lounge as we have another seating area at the other end, but there is a walk way which runs behind these sofas leading to the dining room. Moving the sofa back another foot or so could mess up the layout. Its really annoying!
I maybe able to tweak the position slightly, but only by a few inches here and there
The room is a reasonable size for a UK lounge as we have another seating area at the other end, but there is a walk way which runs behind these sofas leading to the dining room. Moving the sofa back another foot or so could mess up the layout. Its really annoying!
I maybe able to tweak the position slightly, but only by a few inches here and there
Chris,
At home I have them a little further into the room with sufficient toe-in so that they image a couple of feet in front of me.
Alan
Hi Chris
I forgot to mention Alan only brought them over for a couple of hours, before whisking them away...tuh!
Now that I know how they look in my room I'll shift the furniture around and experiment a bit with the Brines. I will defiantly consider building a pair, or one of the other designs that may suit the current location (Any ideas?). I urge anyone who has turned their nose up at the size of the driver to think again, they really do surprise in a BIG way
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Hey everybody,
I didn't read the whole Thread but I just wanted to mention that ~6l in a closed cab works great for the Chr-70.
Just finished them and put them on my desk to get a quick impression and it's good! This Config gives 'enuff lows for near field listening.
I bought a MiniDsp and will cross them to my Subwoofers.
Great speaker, Mr. Fenlon
Greetings, Alex
I didn't read the whole Thread but I just wanted to mention that ~6l in a closed cab works great for the Chr-70.
Just finished them and put them on my desk to get a quick impression and it's good! This Config gives 'enuff lows for near field listening.
I bought a MiniDsp and will cross them to my Subwoofers.
Great speaker, Mr. Fenlon
Greetings, Alex
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