Yes, it was. To quote the great Dr. Johnson, I can give you an answer, but I cannot give you an understanding.
Your first piece of enlightenment will come when you understand the concept that one cannot prove a negative; that is why the burden of proof is on those making claims. Your second piece of enlightenment will come when you spend a few minutes with a first class conjurer; if that doesn't convince you that you can "perceive" all sorts of things that aren't true, then nothing ever will.
If we are both honest,then the one who hears a difference(either you or me-this is not the issue),has also the better hearing ability.
In the previous posts,most unbelievers said that they can't hear differences,and I simply said that I believe them.Unfortunately,they go on to deffend this innability of theirs to hear differences,by trying to convince me and others that we are imagining things.If they also state that you or I might have better hearing than theirs,automatically they accept that you may be right.
In the previous posts,most unbelievers said that they can't hear differences,and I simply said that I believe them.Unfortunately,they go on to deffend this innability of theirs to hear differences,by trying to convince me and others that we are imagining things.If they also state that you or I might have better hearing than theirs,automatically they accept that you may be right.
SY,despite my failure to get an understanding from your answer,am I right that my hearing may be better than say,yours?
Also is there a possibility that quoting great doctors,engineers etc....is perhaps an innability of yours to give your own views,and you need to be proven by quoting others?I respect doctors,engineers etc.....and get their opinion when I feel I need it.However,I do not intent to do this just because you or any other,avoids to answer clearly,to a simple question.Do you accept the possibility that my hearing might be better than yours?
Can you reply with a simple yes or no?
Also is there a possibility that quoting great doctors,engineers etc....is perhaps an innability of yours to give your own views,and you need to be proven by quoting others?I respect doctors,engineers etc.....and get their opinion when I feel I need it.However,I do not intent to do this just because you or any other,avoids to answer clearly,to a simple question.Do you accept the possibility that my hearing might be better than yours?
Can you reply with a simple yes or no?
Panicos K said:
Nope, you miss my point. If the person who has better hearing ability doesn't hear a difference, then the person with lesser ability, who does, has an incorrect perception of the situation. That's the point I was trying to make.
Oh, and as SY said above, everyone should go see a really good close up magician or mentalist. You will be astounded. 🙂
one more time, this is physics. If you said you dropped a hammer and it didnt fall I could believe its what you saw but I wouldnt believe it didnt fall.
pinkmouse,I did see a specialist 3 months ago.I had a hearing check,and cleaning of my ears.As people who like music,I would recommend that we all better start with this kind of specialists,and then we see.I am sure that anyone who doesn't do this from time to time,will be more astounded.
Anyone who thinks I am sitting in front of my computer saying nonsense,or trying to convince you or others around the world about anything,has also missed my points.Just take a look at my first post,and see what I get for answers.If this is the current limit of the experts knowledge to my question,then I might prefer to "imagine" things🙂
Anyone who thinks I am sitting in front of my computer saying nonsense,or trying to convince you or others around the world about anything,has also missed my points.Just take a look at my first post,and see what I get for answers.If this is the current limit of the experts knowledge to my question,then I might prefer to "imagine" things🙂
you already are. I dont think you would believe anyone no matter one kind of proof. Sounds like religion, goodbye.
cbdb:But if one day the L,C,R meter gets improved(although I doubt it if we all rest assured that there is nothing else out there to prove),and suddenly it is scientifically proven that cable differences exist,I bet that thousands of today's unbelievers will start hearing,or "imagining"things,even buy $318 worth of power cables🙂 I call this lack of trust to ourselves,and simple fear of what the others will say about us.It happens every day.A simple defence is to transfer our innability to deal with our fears to others,while we just sit there and wait for others to find solutions.
Cal Weldon,is it now more clear why threads on cables end like this?
Cal Weldon,is it now more clear why threads on cables end like this?
Panicos K said:
Experts knowledge limit.
Yeah, we sure can have doubt about what is true and what is not.
And how little we seem to know.
On one hand we have one of our best (Curl)
saying he is concerned with higher order harmonic distortion
at the 0.001 % level (-100dB)
and if he is concerned it must mean we can hear it, as it is audio we are talking about.
On the other hand we have one with great knowledge
after spent half his life in research and work with sound and related matters (Geddes)
that say some sounds we can not even perceive at 20.000 % (-30dB) harmonic distortion level.
So, here I am today.
I am not so sure about anything.
And I can not see any good investigations happen,
that in the near future can contribute to make me less confused
about human sound perception.
Lineup
probably will not know close to truth about sound during his lifetimePanicos K said:
Three explanations for all this.
A. You are imagining a change to the sound where none exist.
B. You are hearing a real change that others can't because you have superior ears. If this is the case then see C below.
C. Your gear is faulty and is being upset by things that good gear does not react to.
Cheers
🙂
It is scary just how much even short term memory of what something sounds like is variable.
Everyone who mixes for live or recording has stories about appropriate use of the DFA knob, and most of us can tell stories about spending time fiddling with an eq, only to notice later that the bypass switch was down!
Combine that with knowing you have just spent money on something and a real assessment becomes difficult at best.
Now, if spending a pile of cash on a power cord makes your rig sound better to you, that is fine and as long as you consider that you got value for money, nobody can argue against it. But do not discount the fact that 'sounding better to you' involves extensive processing in the brain, which is known to have **** poor recall of what something sounded like 5 minutes ago and is known to be heavily influenced by external factors.
Sounds better to you does not automatically imply a technical cause (This does not invalidate in any way the fact that it sounds better to you)!
I am also quite prepared to accept (but probably not for a gram deck) that there is a whole pile of gear out there that deals very poorly with external RFI (And in some cases is only very marginally stable into a speaker load), and that for this stuff, cables might make a real difference.
The answer however is not expensive cables, it is competent design of the gear in the first place!
At least some of this problem comes from an excessively 'minimalist' design philosophy in some allegedly 'audiophile' circles, given that you can increase the parts count for a minimal audio amp by at least 25% by adding input band limiting filters (To avoid running into slew rate limiting and TID when some numpty hooks up a non filtered DAC), a proper mains input module and speaker line filtering, a lot of this stuff (which is essential in a design that is going to be consistent and reliable in multiple locations) tends to get dropped.
Dans Recipe for getting the basics right:
1: Mains input has a two pole RFI filter module as a through hole fitting IEC module.
2: Bridge rectifiers have each diode bypassed with 220nF caps.
3: All inputs have RFI suppression followed by ~100Khz lpf (multiple feedback is better then sallen and key - makes less demand on GBP), if input is balanced (and they should be) then pin 1 goes direct to the case as close as possible to the input connector, and a common mode choke is used on the signal pair.
4: Make sure that all regulators have adequate headroom at lowest possible supply voltage and adequate heatsinking at highest possible supply voltage (Remarkable how many mixing desk manufacturers get the second part of this one wrong).
5: All outputs have common mode chokes and appropriate bypassing.
6: The reference for single ended analogue internal to the case is connected to the case at ONE point, and is itself never used to reference external signals.
7: Outputs should be stable into at least a microfarad, this sometimes requires playing games with feedback around the build out resistors.
8: Ensure all panels are bonded, ideally continuously and that all holes that might act as waveguides are operated below cutoff.
After getting all that right, it is time to start thinking about the actual circuit you are building, but if you get the basics right then expensive power cables (or any other cables for that matter) should not be required and you will have some chance of getting consistent performance even when right under a medium wave tower (And of passing the radiated and conducted emissions tests for CE marking).
Just my take on it.
Regards, Dan.
Everyone who mixes for live or recording has stories about appropriate use of the DFA knob, and most of us can tell stories about spending time fiddling with an eq, only to notice later that the bypass switch was down!
Combine that with knowing you have just spent money on something and a real assessment becomes difficult at best.
Now, if spending a pile of cash on a power cord makes your rig sound better to you, that is fine and as long as you consider that you got value for money, nobody can argue against it. But do not discount the fact that 'sounding better to you' involves extensive processing in the brain, which is known to have **** poor recall of what something sounded like 5 minutes ago and is known to be heavily influenced by external factors.
Sounds better to you does not automatically imply a technical cause (This does not invalidate in any way the fact that it sounds better to you)!
I am also quite prepared to accept (but probably not for a gram deck) that there is a whole pile of gear out there that deals very poorly with external RFI (And in some cases is only very marginally stable into a speaker load), and that for this stuff, cables might make a real difference.
The answer however is not expensive cables, it is competent design of the gear in the first place!
At least some of this problem comes from an excessively 'minimalist' design philosophy in some allegedly 'audiophile' circles, given that you can increase the parts count for a minimal audio amp by at least 25% by adding input band limiting filters (To avoid running into slew rate limiting and TID when some numpty hooks up a non filtered DAC), a proper mains input module and speaker line filtering, a lot of this stuff (which is essential in a design that is going to be consistent and reliable in multiple locations) tends to get dropped.
Dans Recipe for getting the basics right:
1: Mains input has a two pole RFI filter module as a through hole fitting IEC module.
2: Bridge rectifiers have each diode bypassed with 220nF caps.
3: All inputs have RFI suppression followed by ~100Khz lpf (multiple feedback is better then sallen and key - makes less demand on GBP), if input is balanced (and they should be) then pin 1 goes direct to the case as close as possible to the input connector, and a common mode choke is used on the signal pair.
4: Make sure that all regulators have adequate headroom at lowest possible supply voltage and adequate heatsinking at highest possible supply voltage (Remarkable how many mixing desk manufacturers get the second part of this one wrong).
5: All outputs have common mode chokes and appropriate bypassing.
6: The reference for single ended analogue internal to the case is connected to the case at ONE point, and is itself never used to reference external signals.
7: Outputs should be stable into at least a microfarad, this sometimes requires playing games with feedback around the build out resistors.
8: Ensure all panels are bonded, ideally continuously and that all holes that might act as waveguides are operated below cutoff.
After getting all that right, it is time to start thinking about the actual circuit you are building, but if you get the basics right then expensive power cables (or any other cables for that matter) should not be required and you will have some chance of getting consistent performance even when right under a medium wave tower (And of passing the radiated and conducted emissions tests for CE marking).
Just my take on it.
Regards, Dan.
Fredex, if my gear sounds the way it does because it is faulty,then I will not repair anything🙂 Thanks for your post.
PK, I have no idea of our relative hearing ability. Nor do I see the relevance. You seem to think that "honest" is the same thing as "accurately observed." It isn't. Go see a conjurer.
lineup said:
Experts knowledge limit.
>SNIP
On one hand we have one of our best (Curl)
saying he is concerned with higher order harmonic distortion
at the 0.001 % level (-100dB)
On the other hand
>SNIP
(Geddes)
that say some sounds we can not even perceive at 20.000 % harmonic distortion level.
>SNIP
Lineup
Hey now this is priceless or at least funnier than all the high priced line cords together.
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