Don't you think that those guys are sometimes misleading people only to push sales of their stuff? They just kicked me out of their forums, after I explained the drawbacks of an electronic ballast their have in the store. Earlier I was "warned", when I proved that some of the pictures in the gallery and in the LL official pages are tweaked to show unrealistic quality, and that the owner of that site has very rough understanding of technical issues, while he claims he "designed" new projection lens (it came out he didn't know the principles of OHP optics).
So my advice is to be careful when reading information posted there, as there migh be a lot of "concealed commercials". Recently a had a talk with a guy, who was convinced to buy all the stuff from LL, including their new 200$ projection lens, and he really believed he could build a projector that its quality would beat any decent commercial units. His knowledge came from LL public gallery.
Regards
So my advice is to be careful when reading information posted there, as there migh be a lot of "concealed commercials". Recently a had a talk with a guy, who was convinced to buy all the stuff from LL, including their new 200$ projection lens, and he really believed he could build a projector that its quality would beat any decent commercial units. His knowledge came from LL public gallery.
Regards
Hehe, they really banned you ?
I was reading alot on their puplic forum.
Also about the tweaked results.
The funny thing is that people bought the 20 $ plans and do all the work for LL owners. Not willing to post any plogs or let any Criticism raise.
It always reminds me of Mark Twain´s Tom Sawyer, where those kids pay to paint the wooden fence
P.S.: Sorry for my bad english
I was reading alot on their puplic forum.
Also about the tweaked results.
The funny thing is that people bought the 20 $ plans and do all the work for LL owners. Not willing to post any plogs or let any Criticism raise.
It always reminds me of Mark Twain´s Tom Sawyer, where those kids pay to paint the wooden fence
P.S.: Sorry for my bad english
lol, I did notice that Brain changed the name of the public forum to "Questions about LL products" or the like. Wonder if you had anything to do with that Pepe?
I haven't purchased the $20 plans from LL since I think that I've soaked up the essence of designs just by browsing around sites like this one and DIYPC. I did however buy about $130 worth in parts from LL (standard lens set, fans, FFC cable) and am quite pleased with their quick shipping and quality of material. I was a bit surprised when the UV filter I order turned out to be a flimsy piece of transparency, oh well...
I really wish that the design of their box was made available to all but in the mean time I've worked up a design on my own and I'm pretty happy with it.
If you'd like to see it here's my web page:
http://groups.msn.com/portraitsmore/thebigprojectorproject.msnw
That's my bit.
Chris B. in Iowa
I really wish that the design of their box was made available to all but in the mean time I've worked up a design on my own and I'm pretty happy with it.
If you'd like to see it here's my web page:
http://groups.msn.com/portraitsmore/thebigprojectorproject.msnw
That's my bit.
Chris B. in Iowa
Actually they posted their plans a few weeks ago in the form of a torrent. I don't have the link anymore, but if you search on slashdot I'm sure you'll find it. Think it was last week.
The thing was that it is very very basic plans with many advertisements in it for LL, saying buy for the extra knowledge in premium forums etc. and I think there was something about "premium" plans too.
I guess it's good, but I would have thought if they wanted to advertise they would have made it a bit more professional. The PDF is actually pretty basic and very unimpressive. Maybe I just have high standards though.
By no means am I saying that LL has nothing to offer, there certainly seems to be a great community over there, and many helpful people. Just I question some things that they do. I myself never bought the $20 membership although I have thought about it before.
My one objection is that information should really be free, and it is on so many other sites, which is great. Personally I like the DIYPJ site because you aren't forced into buying anything just for simple, and generally fairly self-explanatory information.
The problem is that many of the things that are advertised in the PDF and on the site are plans to other peoples projectors in the forums. I don't think they are making any money on them, only LL. It's other peoples work that is being charged for. The people obviously posted their detailed plans to help others, I just can't justify only helping those who pay $20 when there is a shop etc. where there are definitely being profits made.
Agree or disagree if you want but the fact is that everyone has the right to their opinion and what I think doesn't really have any effect on LLs business plan, they can do as they like no matter what I think about it.
The thing was that it is very very basic plans with many advertisements in it for LL, saying buy for the extra knowledge in premium forums etc. and I think there was something about "premium" plans too.
I guess it's good, but I would have thought if they wanted to advertise they would have made it a bit more professional. The PDF is actually pretty basic and very unimpressive. Maybe I just have high standards though.
By no means am I saying that LL has nothing to offer, there certainly seems to be a great community over there, and many helpful people. Just I question some things that they do. I myself never bought the $20 membership although I have thought about it before.
My one objection is that information should really be free, and it is on so many other sites, which is great. Personally I like the DIYPJ site because you aren't forced into buying anything just for simple, and generally fairly self-explanatory information.
The problem is that many of the things that are advertised in the PDF and on the site are plans to other peoples projectors in the forums. I don't think they are making any money on them, only LL. It's other peoples work that is being charged for. The people obviously posted their detailed plans to help others, I just can't justify only helping those who pay $20 when there is a shop etc. where there are definitely being profits made.
Agree or disagree if you want but the fact is that everyone has the right to their opinion and what I think doesn't really have any effect on LLs business plan, they can do as they like no matter what I think about it.
I think that guy is desperately struggling to maintain the profits of selling the memberships (that means to make the profits on other's knowledge and willingness to help), while this business is rapidly shrinking. Commercial projectors are pretty cheap, and way better, so not many people start building diy ones. So it's best to keep them uninformed, maybe they will decide to join anyway? Suggest, that there are "secrets", only available to LL members, and kept inside private forums? Rely on the sect of "volunteery salesmen", that he somehow managed to establish there?
Triode: yes, I guess so, those "undergoing changes" in LL public forums are due to my posts there.
Regards
Triode: yes, I guess so, those "undergoing changes" in LL public forums are due to my posts there.
Regards
yeah, lumen labs sucks compared to DIY projector
http://www.diyprojectorcompany.com/
FREE PLANS at diy projector and seem more reliable.
they even tell you right online which items are in stock and which are backordered so there are no suprises
http://www.diyprojectorcompany.com/
FREE PLANS at diy projector and seem more reliable.
they even tell you right online which items are in stock and which are backordered so there are no suprises
pepe, i don't really agree that commercial projectors are better.
except maybe in the department of not worrying about taking apart fragile lcd.
but commercial projectors don't use metal halides with true color temperatures and they don't use 15 or 17 inch high resolution lcd's, they use much smaller ones........
at my university, we have alot of realy nice Sharp lcd projectors and none of them look as good as some of the projectors a few guys have built here. we sometimes go into class early and watch dvd's on them and they are almost as good as some of the results from you guys with the 15 inch or 17 inch lcd projectors..
they are just more convienient and have a warranty.
except maybe in the department of not worrying about taking apart fragile lcd.
but commercial projectors don't use metal halides with true color temperatures and they don't use 15 or 17 inch high resolution lcd's, they use much smaller ones........
at my university, we have alot of realy nice Sharp lcd projectors and none of them look as good as some of the projectors a few guys have built here. we sometimes go into class early and watch dvd's on them and they are almost as good as some of the results from you guys with the 15 inch or 17 inch lcd projectors..
they are just more convienient and have a warranty.
Commercial projectors are better, at least once you get into the 5 figure range. And then theres the operating costs, but if that really matters to you alot, theres a fair chance your not in the market for one. Oogles 9" CRT PJ.
My friend bought a set of the LL plans and built up a projector..
I helped him build up the box and stuff..
The plans are okay,not the best,but they work..
My friends Projector cost like $512 total and it beats any commercial PJ I've seen-so far.I saw some PJ's setup at a local home theatre store,and was NOT impressed.Perhaps they were'nt correctly setup (I hope!)but the pictures were either too small,too blurry,or had too much "windowscreen" effect. Some of these PJ's were up into 5 figures! (The one I was LEAST impressed with cost the MOST,some $13,500,I think. With a tiny grainy picture.
)
My friend can project a clear image something like 8x10 feet,it takes up an entire wall! The "windowscreen" effect starts showing up a little bit if it's much larger than that. ~10x12ft is OK,most of the time,the window screen is just barely noticable,from the sofa.
For only ~$500 it's an impressive setup! The box IS a bit large,and it's kinda noisy with the big 120V fan..but for the price,I think it's a great deal,for a weekend of "elbowgrease" to build the box,and some more time to "fine tune" the optics. 😉
I helped him build up the box and stuff..
The plans are okay,not the best,but they work..
My friends Projector cost like $512 total and it beats any commercial PJ I've seen-so far.I saw some PJ's setup at a local home theatre store,and was NOT impressed.Perhaps they were'nt correctly setup (I hope!)but the pictures were either too small,too blurry,or had too much "windowscreen" effect. Some of these PJ's were up into 5 figures! (The one I was LEAST impressed with cost the MOST,some $13,500,I think. With a tiny grainy picture.
)My friend can project a clear image something like 8x10 feet,it takes up an entire wall! The "windowscreen" effect starts showing up a little bit if it's much larger than that. ~10x12ft is OK,most of the time,the window screen is just barely noticable,from the sofa.
For only ~$500 it's an impressive setup! The box IS a bit large,and it's kinda noisy with the big 120V fan..but for the price,I think it's a great deal,for a weekend of "elbowgrease" to build the box,and some more time to "fine tune" the optics. 😉
pepe303 and all,
We at diyAudio respectfully request that all posts in this thread be kept civil and factual. If you wish to post about your own dealings, both good and bad that's fine. If we venture anywhere near defamation, this thread will be withdrawn. This forum, while an excellent place for exchange of information and ideas, is not a place for venting. We suggest that before posting here, you contact LL directly if you have unsolved issues.
Thank you for your cooperation.
I don't think anyone wants to defame LL.
There is certainly no harm meant by my words. I do realize that LL has been (still is?) a sponsor of this site and so it is a somewhat touchy issue. But as long as people are just expressing their opinions and don't make unfounded statements I don't see why there should be any problems with it.
There is certainly no harm meant by my words. I do realize that LL has been (still is?) a sponsor of this site and so it is a somewhat touchy issue. But as long as people are just expressing their opinions and don't make unfounded statements I don't see why there should be any problems with it.
yeah as far as i know, commercial projectors don't use metal halide bulbs, do they?
and i can tell you that from being a reef aquarium hobbiest only metal halides can run bulbs at the purest spectrum of white light.
now if there are commercial projectors that do use electronic metal halide ballasts that i can choose which brand and color temperature bulb to run in it, then i guess that would be sweet.
(i've never done my homework on commercial projectors cause i know i can't ever afford one so i have no idea what they use but i know they're small, aren't they?)
and i can tell you that from being a reef aquarium hobbiest only metal halides can run bulbs at the purest spectrum of white light.
now if there are commercial projectors that do use electronic metal halide ballasts that i can choose which brand and color temperature bulb to run in it, then i guess that would be sweet.
(i've never done my homework on commercial projectors cause i know i can't ever afford one so i have no idea what they use but i know they're small, aren't they?)
Depends. CRT PJs arent small and certainly arent light, but can make white light, oh, and black too. The have the same advantages over LCD PJs that CRT moniters have over LCD moniters, but you pay for it three times (R,G, and B).
I think some commercial projectors may actually use metal halide bulbs, although I can't say I've ever specifically looked for that.
The bulbs that are used in commercial projectors though are specially engineered to have a very true white or at least match up with the optics (filters etc.) to give off the ideal color temp. The reason they don't have as long hours is that because they are so specifically engineered to both have that color temp and be fairly cool (in order to fit in the tiny projectors and not melt everything) there is a trade-off with life-span. That is also the reason they are so expensive.
There actually was a very good discussion of the comparison between commercial bulbs and the ones we use in the public forum on LL, I'll check tomorrow for a link. Although it may have been one of the threads that I guess held too specific information and was moved to the private forums for members only. (That has happened a few times with me b/c I subscribed to the public forums, yet when I would go to look for it it would say something along the lines of "sorry for members only.") Or it may have been deleted because of the new title of that forum. Either way I'll check on that tomorrow.
The bulbs that are used in commercial projectors though are specially engineered to have a very true white or at least match up with the optics (filters etc.) to give off the ideal color temp. The reason they don't have as long hours is that because they are so specifically engineered to both have that color temp and be fairly cool (in order to fit in the tiny projectors and not melt everything) there is a trade-off with life-span. That is also the reason they are so expensive.
There actually was a very good discussion of the comparison between commercial bulbs and the ones we use in the public forum on LL, I'll check tomorrow for a link. Although it may have been one of the threads that I guess held too specific information and was moved to the private forums for members only. (That has happened a few times with me b/c I subscribed to the public forums, yet when I would go to look for it it would say something along the lines of "sorry for members only.") Or it may have been deleted because of the new title of that forum. Either way I'll check on that tomorrow.
well, I think the reason that commercial bulbs are shorter life span is mainly because of the much shorter arc length(3-5mm as opposed to 27-35mm on normal metal halide).I believe that increases the temp the arc burns at...
and as for lumen lab, I'm a member and its the best 20$ I've spent on my pj... if I have problems or questions I can ask questions and usually theres a response in a few hours... its that simple.... if diyaudio or DIYprojectorcompany forums had as many people posting on them constantly as LL does , then I'd be here(and there) instead of LL most of the time.... personally I can't see that brain will get rich off the LL site, but I could be wrong, all I can say is that it was worth it to me...
and as for lumen lab, I'm a member and its the best 20$ I've spent on my pj... if I have problems or questions I can ask questions and usually theres a response in a few hours... its that simple.... if diyaudio or DIYprojectorcompany forums had as many people posting on them constantly as LL does , then I'd be here(and there) instead of LL most of the time.... personally I can't see that brain will get rich off the LL site, but I could be wrong, all I can say is that it was worth it to me...
pepe303 said:
well, I can tell you about this point since I colaborated with brain on the new lens design. I don´t know if my optical aknowlement is better or not than yours but we can discuss it on a civilized way.
I am interested as well on the electronic ballast drawbacks, I am just a lumenlab menber, and have enjoied a lot there, do enjoy here as well, very interesting theads in the two webspaces.
It is not my goal to convince anybody to join lumenlab's menbership, It is, has alwais been and will be, each one's choice.
mikyd1954 said:
I don't mind anybody getting "rich", except that making money by selling other's ideas, making effort to prevent other people from getting information, and commercializing common knowledge is at least a bit questionable way of getting "rich". It's not a matter of 20$, you may spend it as you like, and good for you that you are glad of that purchase. But devoting your money to that business, you actually supported two questionable activities: one mentioned above, restricting information to some "circle of trust", which is generally counterproductive, and against the ideas of DIY (which is rather about sharing knowledge and making it available, see this forum as an example), and second (which I was banned at LL for pointing that), that is spreading misleading information - tweaked pictures as samples of what you can possibly achieve when you are a "member", concealing weaknesses of products LL has or had for sale: electronic ballast, that has to be mounted externally, "oversized" bulbs, that disallow using a precondensor (and then denying that a precondensor might be useful), even trying to persuade people, that 100lm light output is better than 1000lm.
This is not to defame that other site, but rather to warn people, that some facts might be different that they are presented there. Sure there is a lot of useful information people gathered there, but for those less experienced it might be hard to distinguish that really useful information from commercial noise.
Regards
Re: Re: Lumenlab - your opinions about them?
As for this ballast, these are the drawbacks:
- it makes an already big projector even bigger and bulkier, as you have to put it outside, it needs cooling, while coil ballast can be put inside without any problems
- electronic ballast can be noisy, and you can hardly do anything about it, if your happens to be the one (coil+ignitor can be too, but there are ways to make it quiet)
- it's announced by LL members to allow a quicker restrike, while the limitation to MH bulb restrike time is not a feature of the ballast, but of the bulb itself
- it's much more expensive, and this expense does not translate to better quality of final projector
- there is electronics inside, that can fail, this is very rare for simple coil and ignitor
Yes, it's lighter than coil, but who cares, these projectors are not portable anyway. It's also supposed to be regulated, and so extend the life of the bulb, nobody has confirmed that yet, and there are also electronic ballast, that are not regulated.
Regards
Rox said:
As for this ballast, these are the drawbacks:
- it makes an already big projector even bigger and bulkier, as you have to put it outside, it needs cooling, while coil ballast can be put inside without any problems
- electronic ballast can be noisy, and you can hardly do anything about it, if your happens to be the one (coil+ignitor can be too, but there are ways to make it quiet)
- it's announced by LL members to allow a quicker restrike, while the limitation to MH bulb restrike time is not a feature of the ballast, but of the bulb itself
- it's much more expensive, and this expense does not translate to better quality of final projector
- there is electronics inside, that can fail, this is very rare for simple coil and ignitor
Yes, it's lighter than coil, but who cares, these projectors are not portable anyway. It's also supposed to be regulated, and so extend the life of the bulb, nobody has confirmed that yet, and there are also electronic ballast, that are not regulated.
Regards
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