In cm. I can only say what the sim suggests which is low 40s F10 anechoic. In a room gain should give response to at least that.
WAW = Woofer Assisted Wideband. Few OBs get away without that helper woofer.
Some people like OBs. Some have tried them and not so much. Myself included in the latter.
OBs require space. They need to be some metre plus out from the wall behind.
dave
WAW = Woofer Assisted Wideband. Few OBs get away without that helper woofer.
Some people like OBs. Some have tried them and not so much. Myself included in the latter.
OBs require space. They need to be some metre plus out from the wall behind.
dave
A (mostly) OB we did for Bud. EnABLed Lowther, Eminence beta 8 coupler, and a pair od SDX7 in a TL (i loaned them to him and he didn’t want to give them back).
This is a minimal baffle design, bigger baffles have advantages and disadvantages.
dave
Yes. You may be used to hearing what F3 is, but Toole has shown this to be a useless number to the ear/brain.
dave
dave
I dont see how this mini onken will give more bass compared to simple bass-reflex box of the same size and tuning. Lowther will work in such boxes, but without boost in LF output compared to horns, so you need some sort of correction filter to achive acceptable tonal balance. And I dont see thats mentioned in a picture by planet10, it says "no filters required".
If you wish to go that way check this ML-TL (mass loaded transmission line) project by M.J.King. Its well documented, with free plans, measurements and simulations. Correction filter is included in design, but you dont have to use it if you dont want to.
ML-TL by MJ King
If you wish to go that way check this ML-TL (mass loaded transmission line) project by M.J.King. Its well documented, with free plans, measurements and simulations. Correction filter is included in design, but you dont have to use it if you dont want to.
ML-TL by MJ King
Attached are the plans for he Acousta 116 and Medallion II. As I said, I have not built these and do not endorse them, though hey have been around for decades. I have heard the big Mauhorns linked above with EX4's, and it was what turned me on to the whole Lowther/full range thing. Big, though.
Who said it produces 'more bass compared to simple bass reflex [sic] of the same size and tuning'? Nobody above said any such thing. It is, in point of fact, very well known (and repeatedly explained by Dave for years) that the object of those enclosures is in fact the exact opposite: they use the frictional losses provided by high aspect ratio vents to increase damping around Fb. Or to put it another way, they are a more highly damped alignment than a box with the same Vb, Av and Lv, but with a more moderate vent aspect ratio and lower losses.
What he actually said was:
What he actually said was:
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but I can't quite see how that can be called an synonym for 'this mini onken will give more bass compared to simple bass-reflex box [sic] of the same size and tuning.' 😉
Thanks for your comments. I have to admit that I don't fully understand all of what people are posting because I am a beginner when it comes to speaker enclosure design. Here is what I have understood so far: (and I may have got it wrong!)
- a single 8 inch Lowther speaker does not move enough air to give good bass so it is necessary to use TL or TQW style cabinets to increase the bass output.
Referring to your comments above, I don't care how it does it, all I care about is "is the miniOnken design a valid option for my proposed Lowther project when it comes to bass performance? Will it give me as much bass as a TL or TQW box?
WAW stands for Woofer Assisted Wideband. Some use the term FAST- Full range Assisted Subwoofer Technology, or something along those lines. My guess as to why there aren't more OB designs is the size. I built a pair of Manzanita OBs and they are quite large: 2 ft. X 4 ft. They sound surprisingly good, especially considering the cost of the drivers. Placement is probably more critical as well.
miniOnken alone: No
miniOnken with suitable correction filter: Yes, with expense of reduced efficiency
Depends on specific design. TL or Voigt pipe (TQW as you wrote) may operate at wider frequency range compared to Onken, so more bass boost is possible. But again, it depends on specific design.
miniOnken uses the high vent resistance as part of the equation. You would not want to do a “traditional” BR with the same tuning. You would usually tune it lower. The BR can be taken lower, but will lack the stability of the nminiOnken’s alignment even under the dynamic changes in T/S.
A miniOnken only goes as low as it goes, but the bass is very articuate and elegant, and “in control”.
It is a set of trade-offs that give very good, but not the lowest bottom possible.
Don’t talk to me, talk to the builders, they is very pleased.
A very good study. He chose a less suitable Lowther which did need a filter as bass was weak. Choose a driver more approriate to the enclosure means less band-aid required (if at all).
dave
You can only use the PM6 in a (right) miniOnken. They are very specific. Until i looked at this particular driver, none would work in a miniOnken.
MJK’s ML-TL needs a filter due to lack of bass, the HF rise disappears if one listens off-axis (at least with the driver Martin used) based on his measures.
I believe filters to be bandaids and i always design to avoid needing them.
dave
I didn't mean to start a war of words! I am just trying to get the big picture. What I want is a cabinet design that meets the following:
Mid 90's dB efficiency or better; no filters and no crossovers, bass down to 40Hz (if possible), preferably a design that is optimized for the driver used. Preferably not a design that needs a corner placement or close to wall placement. I can live with a big box but would prefer a mid size one. I have the skills to build any box (not too interested in building one full of curves though!). Thanks to the contributions of many people on this forum I have collected a lot of plans; Alfredo, Mauhorn, etc. and I have learned that I can ask Lowther and they will send me a full set of drawings for many enclosures. But others have mentioned that many of these boxes are "generic", not driver specific or at least not mathematically optimized. Also, many of the plans I have seen provide very vague and unreliable bass performance data. I really want to avoid at all cost spending a lot of time and money building boxes just to discover that the bass is weak !!!! I have narrowed down my selection to the PM6C or the DX2 or DX3. Thanks everyone for all your help.
Mid 90's dB efficiency or better; no filters and no crossovers, bass down to 40Hz (if possible), preferably a design that is optimized for the driver used. Preferably not a design that needs a corner placement or close to wall placement. I can live with a big box but would prefer a mid size one. I have the skills to build any box (not too interested in building one full of curves though!). Thanks to the contributions of many people on this forum I have collected a lot of plans; Alfredo, Mauhorn, etc. and I have learned that I can ask Lowther and they will send me a full set of drawings for many enclosures. But others have mentioned that many of these boxes are "generic", not driver specific or at least not mathematically optimized. Also, many of the plans I have seen provide very vague and unreliable bass performance data. I really want to avoid at all cost spending a lot of time and money building boxes just to discover that the bass is weak !!!! I have narrowed down my selection to the PM6C or the DX2 or DX3. Thanks everyone for all your help.
I have DX2s in Hedlund horns. The funny thing is that in room measurements show flat response in the HF. Outside in the room they play down to something around 60 Hz IIRC and I like to use a subwoofer with them. Would be better in a corner if I had them free. I will try to find some measurements I made.
Some posts have been removed. Let's stay on topic.
Hello Dave,
I read with interest your comment. I've been waiting to build a Lowther/Voigt corner cabinet and am happy to find these plans again (the web link I had was dead).
Originally I wanted it to play tango music (mono recordings from the 40s) and the confined space made the corner design interesting.
What do you mean by "they were sad"?
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Cuypers
Last edited by a moderator:
They sounded really bad. But we used K3 particle board and an SCA80/PAT4 front-end (which is probably where a lot of the suck comes from).
I have also learned a whole lot about horn design — modeling has dramatically improved and modern horns designed by people that kow what they are doing are, in general, way better than guessed ones (all those historical designs). They may work, but could be so much better.
dave
I have also learned a whole lot about horn design — modeling has dramatically improved and modern horns designed by people that kow what they are doing are, in general, way better than guessed ones (all those historical designs). They may work, but could be so much better.
dave
Lowther has plans for the Academy for sale on their site, with more to come apparently.
https://www.lowtherloudspeakers.com/product/the-academy
https://www.lowtherloudspeakers.com/product/the-academy
