I see two options
either as you suggest yourself, using AV amp as control
this way you can cut the lows from main speaker, and play louder
but still limited by speaker power handling
whether its possible at all depends on your AV amp, I dont know
or use integrated tube amp as control
it would need a line out, which is not always available
AV amp would be sub amp only
main signal from tube amp goes directly to main speaker
best sound quality, but SPL limited by speaker
either as you suggest yourself, using AV amp as control
this way you can cut the lows from main speaker, and play louder
but still limited by speaker power handling
whether its possible at all depends on your AV amp, I dont know
or use integrated tube amp as control
it would need a line out, which is not always available
AV amp would be sub amp only
main signal from tube amp goes directly to main speaker
best sound quality, but SPL limited by speaker
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I would consider looking on Audiogon.com and seeing if a Sophia Electric Baby or similar used tube amp came up. Or, I am trying to unload this: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/169534-fs-sophia-electric-el34-s-e-t-pp-amp.html
Really quite a nice amp for the money. Cosmetics could be better, But sounds great, doesn't need mods, although they would be nice too. Shipping to Sweden might be a bit steep though. Probably 20kg as a guess.
Really quite a nice amp for the money. Cosmetics could be better, But sounds great, doesn't need mods, although they would be nice too. Shipping to Sweden might be a bit steep though. Probably 20kg as a guess.
Hey Niklas,
For that very limited budget(for a tubeamp) I suggest you forget about buying a new amp. Better find something secondhand.
Try hifimagasinet.com or hififorum.nu. Why not look for an "Edison 60" made by former Audion(GB)-designer Erik Andersson. Buying it in Sweden also gives you an opportunity to listen before the deal.
For that very limited budget(for a tubeamp) I suggest you forget about buying a new amp. Better find something secondhand.
Try hifimagasinet.com or hififorum.nu. Why not look for an "Edison 60" made by former Audion(GB)-designer Erik Andersson. Buying it in Sweden also gives you an opportunity to listen before the deal.
Tinitus was right there, but i don't have the S-1 or the subs yet. But i am supposed to get them.
The reason why i want the S-1 is because it has a highpass filter, i don't want the little EL70 playing bass and get destroyed at high volumes.
The reason why i want the S-1 is because it has a highpass filter, i don't want the little EL70 playing bass and get destroyed at high volumes.
Yes. The drivers (not SDX10, but RSW1060) are lying in my room reminding me every day that i have to get started. The only think i lack is a plan for the box and material. Then i'm ready to go.
Hey guys,
I too am trying to find a cheap tubey to get by feet wet. Found one but an issue that has come up and being argued that it is a NO NO to have solid state rectifiers rather than tube rectifiers in tube amps.
Can anyone comment on this??
I too am trying to find a cheap tubey to get by feet wet. Found one but an issue that has come up and being argued that it is a NO NO to have solid state rectifiers rather than tube rectifiers in tube amps.
Can anyone comment on this??
Every tube amp in my house has solid state rectification except for one- it's a guitar amp, where poor regulation, high supply impedance, and sagging B+ rails under hard drive are often desirable.
Sorry, wrong amp, this is the one... the Yaqin MC-10L, link below....
YAQIN MC-10L EL34 Class A Integrated Tube Amplifier SV - eBay (item 310249980049 end time Sep-19-10 23:02:43 PDT)
A 2nd response comment about rectifiers from a friend......
Heres why not to use SSDB's in a tube amp:
Quote[ DO NOT install a solid state diode bridge to replace the vacuum tube rectifier. The supply is operating at 500 volts with line surges over 1000 volts! There are no reliable diodes available to operate at this voltage. You will be in great danger of blowing the diode bridge and damaging your power transformer and filter capacitor. In addition, the solid state supply will "turn on" instantly, and the full B+ voltage will be fed to the tubes before the heaters have warmed up and turned the tubes on. This will tend to over voltage the quad filter capacitor and capacitors downstream, which may damage them. The output tubes will run hotter than normal and have a short service life. There are no useful redeeming advantages to a solid state diode bridge.
But there are folks that have the 10L for a year with no issues...some report high 2nd order harmonic distortion due to driving the finals harder than most.. End quote].
Anyone care to comment??
Thanks,
Rob
YAQIN MC-10L EL34 Class A Integrated Tube Amplifier SV - eBay (item 310249980049 end time Sep-19-10 23:02:43 PDT)
A 2nd response comment about rectifiers from a friend......
Heres why not to use SSDB's in a tube amp:
Quote[ DO NOT install a solid state diode bridge to replace the vacuum tube rectifier. The supply is operating at 500 volts with line surges over 1000 volts! There are no reliable diodes available to operate at this voltage. You will be in great danger of blowing the diode bridge and damaging your power transformer and filter capacitor. In addition, the solid state supply will "turn on" instantly, and the full B+ voltage will be fed to the tubes before the heaters have warmed up and turned the tubes on. This will tend to over voltage the quad filter capacitor and capacitors downstream, which may damage them. The output tubes will run hotter than normal and have a short service life. There are no useful redeeming advantages to a solid state diode bridge.
But there are folks that have the 10L for a year with no issues...some report high 2nd order harmonic distortion due to driving the finals harder than most.. End quote].
Anyone care to comment??
Thanks,
Rob
SS rec'd is fine with a few conditions.
Does the original design account for the sag in voltage of the tube rec? If it does you might just pop you b+ up 25-50 volts when you switch to ss. The easy solution is just pop a inline resistor to know the voltage down.
Can the SS take the turnon/turn off punishment? Tube recs can take a hittin and keep on tickin, SS just short out and die. So you need ones with 1kv voltage ratings or higher.
I still dont understand how people think the rec affects the sound, all it does is change ac to dc. After that its filtered to oblivion with resistors,caps,chokes.
But the bonus of the SS setup is you can install much bigger caps. With a tube your limited to 100uf or so or the tube will blow at startup.
the Soft start myth has been debunked already. Even with soft start the b+ comes up much faster then the tube heaters. I believe they ended the argument with "its better to apply the b+ while cold then instantly with a relay when they are hot and shock them".
Your buddy is correct about most of that, however its all good if you just pop a resistor inline after the bridge to knock the voltage back down to where it should be (in my case i needed 150 ohm).
Does the original design account for the sag in voltage of the tube rec? If it does you might just pop you b+ up 25-50 volts when you switch to ss. The easy solution is just pop a inline resistor to know the voltage down.
Can the SS take the turnon/turn off punishment? Tube recs can take a hittin and keep on tickin, SS just short out and die. So you need ones with 1kv voltage ratings or higher.
I still dont understand how people think the rec affects the sound, all it does is change ac to dc. After that its filtered to oblivion with resistors,caps,chokes.
But the bonus of the SS setup is you can install much bigger caps. With a tube your limited to 100uf or so or the tube will blow at startup.
the Soft start myth has been debunked already. Even with soft start the b+ comes up much faster then the tube heaters. I believe they ended the argument with "its better to apply the b+ while cold then instantly with a relay when they are hot and shock them".
Your buddy is correct about most of that, however its all good if you just pop a resistor inline after the bridge to knock the voltage back down to where it should be (in my case i needed 150 ohm).
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You need to get smarter friends. 😀
First, distinguish between replacing tube rectifiers in an existing design (which takes more than just one for one replacement with SS diodes, your friend's strawman) and designing an amp from the get-go to use SS.
Second, there is a thing in electronics called "series connection." If indeed there's a need for over 1000V PIV ratings for rectifiers, that's what's usually done (with voltage equalizing resistors).
Third, a solid state supply will have lower impedance, better regulation, less heat, and higher efficiency. So much for the silly statement about "no useful redeeming advantages."
First, distinguish between replacing tube rectifiers in an existing design (which takes more than just one for one replacement with SS diodes, your friend's strawman) and designing an amp from the get-go to use SS.
Second, there is a thing in electronics called "series connection." If indeed there's a need for over 1000V PIV ratings for rectifiers, that's what's usually done (with voltage equalizing resistors).
Third, a solid state supply will have lower impedance, better regulation, less heat, and higher efficiency. So much for the silly statement about "no useful redeeming advantages."
Thanks, I guess there are trade offs here and there, but I think one of these lesser expensive amps for an 'entry level tube amp wannabe' would work for now, then I can move up to the big boys once I can understand the tube differences.
So a solid state supply is not so bad, in fact ok?
Rob
hey guys, lets try to stay close to the subject, and not wander too much off
woodsart, amp looks fine, and may be a good suggestion, but if you want a larger more detailded debate on that amp in particular, maybe better start a new thread on that subject
this is still rullknoffs thread, until his questions have been answered
woodsart, amp looks fine, and may be a good suggestion, but if you want a larger more detailded debate on that amp in particular, maybe better start a new thread on that subject
this is still rullknoffs thread, until his questions have been answered
Sorry, wasn't looking for a particular debate on that amp...just looking for a tube amp reasonably priced with a good entry level sound. Thought I was in the right place to discuss amps in general including others that I was going to mention.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Yes the Yaqin is definitely SS rectification, and is known to take out it's fuses now and again on start-up as they are quite small.
The major issue (IMO) with the Yaqin is about 130V+ on the LPT cathode (worse than the SRPP input section funnily enough) with a grounded heater input. That heater can then take out the 6N1P tubes until you fix it, unless you get lucky with the tubes.
That is interesting, I guess newer models continue to improve.
Globulator.....
I will also be plugging in to 110v outlet in the US not 130v. If that is what you mean.
I will start a Yaquin MC-10L and other chinese amp thread if necessary.
Thanks,
Rob
Given your budget, I like the idea of buying a good used amp locally. Otherwise, shipping a big heavy amp is going to claim so much of your budget that you will be left with only Chinese equipment to choose from. I notice that most guy's who buy equipment from China do so with the intention of spending a few DIY afternoons sorting out the deficiencies, and from your posts, that doesn't sound like your interest.
Remember, you can search Audiogon by country looking for local options. And you will be able to listen to it before you buy it.
Remember, you can search Audiogon by country looking for local options. And you will be able to listen to it before you buy it.
Well.
Sweden is a small country. A very small country. And i've seen mabe 10-15 tube amps on 1-2 years scanning the web for hi-fi products. And most of them way over my budget (Pathos Logos for an example).
I have nothing against DIY, but at the moment i'd like to stay away from it since i know very little about tube amps and electronics in general.
But wouldn't it be a quite good idea to buy a "chinese tube amp" and be happy with it until i learn to modify correctly and safely?
Sweden is a small country. A very small country. And i've seen mabe 10-15 tube amps on 1-2 years scanning the web for hi-fi products. And most of them way over my budget (Pathos Logos for an example).
I have nothing against DIY, but at the moment i'd like to stay away from it since i know very little about tube amps and electronics in general.
But wouldn't it be a quite good idea to buy a "chinese tube amp" and be happy with it until i learn to modify correctly and safely?
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