1 - More drivers will make it possible to extend low frequencies. Plus you want the line array to act as a floor to ceiling array for best performance potential. If 25 drivers fit between floor and ceiling it would have my preference.
2 - Bigger x-max will again gain you bottom end potential. However, if I look at the FR curve from the FR89EX, personally I wouldn't use it in an array:
Source: http://medleysmusings.com/fountek-fr89ex/
The FR88EX seems better behaved in a direct comparison:
Source: http://medleysmusings.com/fountek-fr88ex/
You can fix lots of things with EQ/FIR, but in an array I'd start with a driver with the smoothest top end. You can't expect to fix a lot of ringing. The top end is already a challenge as the distance from driver to listener varies along the line. The top and bottom drivers will be further away than the middle (listening height) one. Choosing the TC9 wasn't a cost driven decision for me.
Look how it does compared to a few others (sadly no FR88EX): https://mehlau.net/audio/full-range-radiation-patterns/
3 - Many have tried a single tweeter in an array. Due to the line behaviour acting differently from a point source tweeter you'd get an uneven response if you listen at a different distance than the design accounts for.
Yet Adyton seems to do well enough:
One day I'll probably experiment with an ambient tweeter, just to see what it does, it won't be pointed at the listening spot and it would be slightly delayed.
4 - Best is to model the array and see what you need. With the TC9 I'm pretty save till about 240 watt (to stay within x-max limits, depending on the desired bottom end extension). I did model it with the idea to have the array close to the back wall (front of baffle 50 cm from the wall behind it).
2 - Bigger x-max will again gain you bottom end potential. However, if I look at the FR curve from the FR89EX, personally I wouldn't use it in an array:
Source: http://medleysmusings.com/fountek-fr89ex/
The FR88EX seems better behaved in a direct comparison:
Source: http://medleysmusings.com/fountek-fr88ex/
You can fix lots of things with EQ/FIR, but in an array I'd start with a driver with the smoothest top end. You can't expect to fix a lot of ringing. The top end is already a challenge as the distance from driver to listener varies along the line. The top and bottom drivers will be further away than the middle (listening height) one. Choosing the TC9 wasn't a cost driven decision for me.
Look how it does compared to a few others (sadly no FR88EX): https://mehlau.net/audio/full-range-radiation-patterns/
3 - Many have tried a single tweeter in an array. Due to the line behaviour acting differently from a point source tweeter you'd get an uneven response if you listen at a different distance than the design accounts for.
Yet Adyton seems to do well enough:
One day I'll probably experiment with an ambient tweeter, just to see what it does, it won't be pointed at the listening spot and it would be slightly delayed.
4 - Best is to model the array and see what you need. With the TC9 I'm pretty save till about 240 watt (to stay within x-max limits, depending on the desired bottom end extension). I did model it with the idea to have the array close to the back wall (front of baffle 50 cm from the wall behind it).
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Seeing how most drivers on that page are 8" there's only one valid comparison there
. Still I hope you get the idea of what to look at when choosing your driver. Please don't pick a driver with a ringing top end. I've seen more than one array project going sour due to using the wrong driver. Strangely enough, they always tend to blame the topology of the speaker (array) and not their choice of drivers for the failure.
I'm not trying to sway you away from the FR88EX, it's quite a good performer if I look at it objectively. Just make sure it's the one you want. Ideally get one or two of both and compare them, both in listening tests and measurements.
Look at this post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/193015-stupid-cheap-line-array-5.html#post2649138
Member OPC actually preferred the FR88EX as a driver. He said this about it:
I never had the opportunity to listen to the FR88EX in person. In my research I stuck with looking at measurements of all interesting drivers and got a pair of TC9's to test. Next I high passed the TC9 around 500 Hz and put my own 3 way under there, low passed to see if I could live with the treble. After that test I went with the TC9. The treble output satisfied me enough to take the gamble.
OPC's line arrays were the first build I found with that Vifa driver. Lots of Vifa arrays have followed after that.
My plans to use the Vifa were in place when I found that thread (its how I found it), it was wonderful though to be able to ask questions to someone who had already been there/done that.
Look at this post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/193015-stupid-cheap-line-array-5.html#post2649138
Member OPC actually preferred the FR88EX as a driver. He said this about it:
OPC said:
I never had the opportunity to listen to the FR88EX in person. In my research I stuck with looking at measurements of all interesting drivers and got a pair of TC9's to test. Next I high passed the TC9 around 500 Hz and put my own 3 way under there, low passed to see if I could live with the treble. After that test I went with the TC9. The treble output satisfied me enough to take the gamble.
OPC's line arrays were the first build I found with that Vifa driver. Lots of Vifa arrays have followed after that.
My plans to use the Vifa were in place when I found that thread (its how I found it), it was wonderful though to be able to ask questions to someone who had already been there/done that.
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Thanks for your support !!!! You help me a lot!
I found an cheapest (1/3 of FR88EX) driver, but dont have so flat response after 10k and have low xmax value, the driver is the FE85.
Asked price of FR58EX that are small but have 2.9mm xmax and nice curve.
if is cheaper than the FR88EX will be great!
The graphs I posted should be comparable. I do trust their source. Erin has done many measurements and I followed him on diymobileaudio from around the time when he was in charge of the Klippel test equipment owned by that site, and later on when he got his own Klippel.
Hi, just my three cents:
As samsagaz is gonna usually listen to sound played over the array in the nearfield, where the arraying dampens trebles, if a single driver evenly rises trebles, then less electrical treble gain will be necessary for the array, so the amplifier may be weaker. 10 Watts should play ******* loud.
Unless you ride a principle, the array need not reach from ground to ceiling, just from loest to hiest possible listening position. A sonic advantage of reduced array heit is, that some reflections and resonances will still occur from ground and ceiling, chiming in the ones from the back, sides and front of the chamber.
Also unless you ride a principle, you can use bigger drivers. As long as your ears stay within array heit, no spatial aliasing, say comb-filtering, will spoil your direct sound. But use at least three drivers in order to even out runtime differences between drivers. For an array of one meter heit, ten 10cm, 8 13cm or six 17cm drivers are a likely choice, halve that for the back channels.
Thanks for reading, Uli
As samsagaz is gonna usually listen to sound played over the array in the nearfield, where the arraying dampens trebles, if a single driver evenly rises trebles, then less electrical treble gain will be necessary for the array, so the amplifier may be weaker. 10 Watts should play ******* loud.
Unless you ride a principle, the array need not reach from ground to ceiling, just from loest to hiest possible listening position. A sonic advantage of reduced array heit is, that some reflections and resonances will still occur from ground and ceiling, chiming in the ones from the back, sides and front of the chamber.
Also unless you ride a principle, you can use bigger drivers. As long as your ears stay within array heit, no spatial aliasing, say comb-filtering, will spoil your direct sound. But use at least three drivers in order to even out runtime differences between drivers. For an array of one meter heit, ten 10cm, 8 13cm or six 17cm drivers are a likely choice, halve that for the back channels.
Thanks for reading, Uli
Thanks guys! this week will finish to choice the driver,
FR88EX (a little expensive)
FE85 (1/3 of FR88EX)
FR58EX:8.8 (1/2 of FR88EX)
but today found another small drivers (maybe with fake curves)... The driver have no brand, but looks not so bad for the price (1/8 of the FR88EX).
Can someone please help me to say if graph and T/S are OK?
https://is.alicdn.com/img/pb/793/977/846/846977793_567.jpg
Revc= 6.800 Ohm
Fo= 133.949 Hz
Sd= 3.318
Krm= 1.828m Ohm
Erm= 0.729
Kxm= 2.797m H
Exm= 0.751
Vas= 1.242 Ltr
Cms= 794.274u M/N
Mmd= 1.668 g
Mms= 1.777 g
BL= 2.500
Qms= 5.699
Qes= 1.628
Qts= 1.266
No= 0.200 %
SPLo= 84.505 dB
FR88EX (a little expensive)
FE85 (1/3 of FR88EX)
FR58EX:8.8 (1/2 of FR88EX)
but today found another small drivers (maybe with fake curves)... The driver have no brand, but looks not so bad for the price (1/8 of the FR88EX).
Can someone please help me to say if graph and T/S are OK?
https://is.alicdn.com/img/pb/793/977/846/846977793_567.jpg
Revc= 6.800 Ohm
Fo= 133.949 Hz
Sd= 3.318
Krm= 1.828m Ohm
Erm= 0.729
Kxm= 2.797m H
Exm= 0.751
Vas= 1.242 Ltr
Cms= 794.274u M/N
Mmd= 1.668 g
Mms= 1.777 g
BL= 2.500
Qms= 5.699
Qes= 1.628
Qts= 1.266
No= 0.200 %
SPLo= 84.505 dB
Ultimately, it's your choice. All I usually say is: be sure to like the driver you are planning to use in an array. You get that "driver's signature" back on steroids.
Meaning it will highlight any flaws that the driver possesses as well as all the good things about it. Knowing that, the Vifa TC9 FD18-08 really is a no-brainer. As well as the Vifa TG9 FD10-08. The 4 ohms Vifa TG9 is slightly different in performance!
Of your list I would know which one I'd pick. This could very well be the last speaker you'd ever need.
Meaning it will highlight any flaws that the driver possesses as well as all the good things about it. Knowing that, the Vifa TC9 FD18-08 really is a no-brainer. As well as the Vifa TG9 FD10-08. The 4 ohms Vifa TG9 is slightly different in performance!
Of your list I would know which one I'd pick. This could very well be the last speaker you'd ever need
.Ultimately, it's your choice. All I usually say is: be sure to like the driver you are planning to use in an array. You get that "driver's signature" back on steroids.
Meaning it will highlight any flaws that the driver possesses as well as all the good things about it. Knowing that, the Vifa TC9 FD18-08 really is a no-brainer. As well as the Vifa TG9 FD10-08. The 4 ohms Vifa TG9 is slightly different in performance!
Of your list I would know which one I'd pick. This could very well be the last speaker you'd ever need
Yes, you are right! Will stuck with the FR88EX then, because a lot of ppl use it and like it and have good/trust measurements.
22 days... It took me a whole year
But we were behind and with your the whole way.. and even after that!
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