Screw the ribbons, where's the bass? 🙂
When are four 8" drivers not enough for sub bass duty? When you've got eight 10" that's when.
To save from blowing up the weakass 8's used in the LGT, and to stake my claim as man, subs must come forth.
What d'ya think of the shape? Phallic enough? 😀 I know line arrays are in my future so I figure a bass array per side will get me where I need to be right now and by no accident will also complement such a design.
All design work done and chicken sacrificed for sunday lunch so I'm all set to grab the materials this coming weekend and then bore you with details, photo's and such like soon afterwards.
When are four 8" drivers not enough for sub bass duty? When you've got eight 10" that's when.
To save from blowing up the weakass 8's used in the LGT, and to stake my claim as man, subs must come forth.
What d'ya think of the shape? Phallic enough? 😀 I know line arrays are in my future so I figure a bass array per side will get me where I need to be right now and by no accident will also complement such a design.
All design work done and chicken sacrificed for sunday lunch so I'm all set to grab the materials this coming weekend and then bore you with details, photo's and such like soon afterwards.
There is something great about tall sealed multi woofer arrays. They pressurize many room modes like a hammer. I have experienced Infinity IRSV servo towers. Go for it by all means!
As with everything you seem to come out with, it's perfectly themed and looks beautiful!
However, for sealed subs that use an even number of drivers, I can't get over horizontally-opposed pairs in terms of mechanical elegance. Particularly the top driver in that line array might create quite a rotary moment on the enclosure when it's being driven hard. It just seems.. suboptimal, you know?
The main problem with using pairs is of course that you won't be able to match the look quite as much with the mains - and since the look of these things is very important, that's worth some thought. At the same time, I think there is scope for matching the subs with the mains in different ways, and I just don't think I could not use them!
(BTW, how are you planning on cutting the braces? Do you have access to a CNC system now?)
Say, either that rendering is to actual size 😱 or you are starting to really concede with the liter issue.😀
(..as a personal note: D@mn, wish I had that much volume to work with you before..
)
(..as a personal note: D@mn, wish I had that much volume to work with you before..
)
Wingfeather said:
Thanks! You just went down on my Christmas card list. 😀
All valid points but churning these CAD things out is a proper ballache. Besides the cabinets will weigh more than Queen Latifah giving Santa Claus a piggy back. Any movement when these are running at steam will be bowel related.
Erm, I have access to Bosch, a pencil and a tape measure 😀
ScottG said:Say, either that rendering is to actual size 😱 or you are starting to really concede with the liter issue.😀
(..as a personal note: D@mn, wish I had that much volume to work with you before..
So then Scott. If you had 190ltrs to play with what would you do.
<walks off casually whistling>Bear in mind that bass arrays are an aesthetic match with the mains and bigass boxes like these need some kind of running theme because they just don't blend. I choose to make them a focal point alongside the mains instead. People will walk in, see them, and say "my you have small ones" 😀
Mine would have 15" drivers and be 6 high! 
Looks good, for sure. I've always liked the line array sub idea.
I need another sub, but I have something special in mind...
Looks good, for sure. I've always liked the line array sub idea.
I need another sub, but I have something special in mind...
The Martin Logan Statement-2 used several modular woofer boxes which could be stacked and bolted together as a bipole or a dipole or with delay a cardiod bass array. This seems very versatile for line arrays, and the boxes could also be put on the floor around the room as is recommended in the literature to reduce room modes.
Attachments
as always, bewdiful.
However I must say the first thought that jumped out was that the bass box should have the same/matching top and bottom chamfer? Looks like there would be enough room, and then it would not just be the paint scheme that says 'matching unit'.
However I must say the first thought that jumped out was that the bass box should have the same/matching top and bottom chamfer? Looks like there would be enough room, and then it would not just be the paint scheme that says 'matching unit'.
terry j said:
Hi Terry, good suggestion but I think I tried what your describing. I also tried a matching angled baffle instead of the straight vertical one shown. Both these things seemed to be trying to hard or the execution was off.
I've still got the drafts on the hard disk so I'll put them here later on.
Shin -
what max SPL vs freq would you get from those four 10" drivers in a 190L sealed cabinett?
Maybe too little max SPL at 20 Hz?
Personally,
I would use 15" drivers. Probably, because I have some 😀
How about two 15" in one cabinett? and a "little" more volume.
Sigurd
what max SPL vs freq would you get from those four 10" drivers in a 190L sealed cabinett?
Maybe too little max SPL at 20 Hz?
Personally,
I would use 15" drivers. Probably, because I have some 😀
How about two 15" in one cabinett? and a "little" more volume.
Sigurd
DaveM said:
Hi Dave, drivers are Peerless XLS10.
OK driver overall. I've used these a couple of times in the past. Come to think of it I've had 8 of them already and sold them off. With the further 8 I just got that brings the total up to 16. Hmm, I see a preference forming. 🙂
TBH the XLS isn't my number one choice. I'd rather go with the Exodus Audio 18" Maelstrom but shipping is $200 for each $350 driver. Seems a bit silly giving that much away for postage.
I can grab the XLS10's at £59 each and stuffing a few of them in a box quickly adds output for relatively sensible money.
Sigurd Ruschkow said:
Hi Sigurd,
Thanks for the suggestion. 15's or even 18's would be cool. An array of 4 of those per side would be stout.
I have a weakness though and that's slim baffles. The sub array idea lends itself to a tower shape and because the mains are slim I wanted that also. A regular squat and cubic sub box doesn't get tarred with the same brush but I made a decision to not go that route because of the choice to try and match the mains.
The towers(there's two BTW) will be dual purpose:
For music/movies/whatever:
The subs will effectively become an extension of the mains ie. a 4 box solution or mains+stereo subs which ever way you want to look at it. The plan is to add another crossover at 50hz whereby the 8's in the mains are rolled off and the 10's take up the slack.
For movies:
As well as the above I'll also be simultaneously routing the mono 0.5 LFE channel on movie soundtracks to both the left and right bass arrays so there'll be 8x 10" drivers working here.
I think this setup will be an OK compromise for a fairly good looking multi purpose system ie. For any stereo signal you take the strain off the 8" drivers in the mains whilst simultaneously increasing extension plus additionally when there's a 0.5 LFE channel present you route that signal to the total left and right array of 8x 10" drivers which should capably handle those 'hot' signals.
PS. For the max SPL etc. I'll put the basic WinISD data up shortly.
Hi ant:
They look great, and with your build skills, I'm sure they'll come out that way too. But you definitely should oppose those woofers, maybe alternate them with 10" passive radiators and run it with 8 10" surfaces in each cabinet 🙂
So it would be:
Front Back
Passive Active
Active Passive
Passive Active
Active Passive
that'll displace some mega air and the PRs should buy you a lot more good output down low.
They look great, and with your build skills, I'm sure they'll come out that way too. But you definitely should oppose those woofers, maybe alternate them with 10" passive radiators and run it with 8 10" surfaces in each cabinet 🙂
So it would be:
Front Back
Passive Active
Active Passive
Passive Active
Active Passive
that'll displace some mega air and the PRs should buy you a lot more good output down low.
Hi Badman, interesting suggestion. I have questions 🙂
I've never built a cabinet with opposing woofers. I've heard about the mechanical vibration energy from opposing drivers being 180 degrees out of phase thus cancelling and decreasing cabinet borne noise but how real, and audible, is this problem?
Isn't the existing cabinet construction sturdy enough to negate such things? For example: 81mm thick baffles, 34mm side/top/rear walls and 25mm bracing.
Another thing to consider is that the rear of the cabinet will be close to a wall. Wouldn't this be a recipe for bass nasties in such a situation?
I've never built a cabinet with opposing woofers. I've heard about the mechanical vibration energy from opposing drivers being 180 degrees out of phase thus cancelling and decreasing cabinet borne noise but how real, and audible, is this problem?
Isn't the existing cabinet construction sturdy enough to negate such things? For example: 81mm thick baffles, 34mm side/top/rear walls and 25mm bracing.
Another thing to consider is that the rear of the cabinet will be close to a wall. Wouldn't this be a recipe for bass nasties in such a situation?
Hello Ant,
slim baffles are what I had in mind, too, and to have the drivers n the side a la e.g. the Arrakis.
I thought you would like to use'm for movies, and that was why I was wondering about the max SPL at low frequencies.
What I think one would gain by using 15" drivers instead of say 10" ones, is the "weight" of the bass will be more powerful with 15" drivers.
May I ask what data the 10" drivers has?
Best regards,
Sigurd
slim baffles are what I had in mind, too, and to have the drivers n the side a la e.g. the Arrakis.
I thought you would like to use'm for movies, and that was why I was wondering about the max SPL at low frequencies.
What I think one would gain by using 15" drivers instead of say 10" ones, is the "weight" of the bass will be more powerful with 15" drivers.
May I ask what data the 10" drivers has?
Best regards,
Sigurd
ShinOBIWAN said:
Attachments
Without a doubt, if they are close to a wall you will get lots of bass nasties from rear firing anything. I am assuming from looking at the design that these subs are to be sealed. If that is the case, lots of EQ will be necessary. (I'm sure that you know that) If you go with the PR idea you will get natural extension via higher moving mass and larger radiating surface. You won't go wrong either way. I think that to blend with what you have already you would be better off with the EQ'd sealed system.
About radiation in the boxes, I think you are spot on there as well. You could but active drivers in the top and bottom positions, front and rear, with the passives in the center positions front and rear. I bet that you work quite nicely.
About radiation in the boxes, I think you are spot on there as well. You could but active drivers in the top and bottom positions, front and rear, with the passives in the center positions front and rear. I bet that you work quite nicely.
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