You guys made a pretty good product at a great price. But I'm trying to go with discrete outputs. I was looking for a different passive way to do things but a simple RC filter is the simple solution if only the balanced outputs of the Legato are used with discrete opamps that show "intolerance" to DC Bias. Maybe just using the "+" and the gnd of Legato outputs could be an alternative. There will still be DC to block but maybe less "complicated" for opamp inputs.
Crazy...
If you want discrete, and you want to take advantage of the best possible performance the Legato has to offer, the answer is simple: Use the balanced outputs! Less components in the signal path, and common mode noise cancellation to the inputs of the next stage.
Try a balanced amp with it, or preamp if you prefer...
If you want discrete, and you want to take advantage of the best possible performance the Legato has to offer, the answer is simple: Use the balanced outputs! Less components in the signal path, and common mode noise cancellation to the inputs of the next stage.
Try a balanced amp with it, or preamp if you prefer...
That is a completely silly thing to say for someone looking for help. I am having a hard time following you. If you claim to understand as much as you seem think you do why exactly are you asking for help?
The ES9018 does not work like other current output DACs, The critical factor is bias modulation at the output. The voltage at the outputs needs to stay as constant as possible. Thus the importance of extremely low input impedance.
To answer your earlier questions. I have no interest in that DAC, so you are on your own. Give it a go. If you do you should be able to simply adjust the gain of the BAL/SE stage. Simple enough if you understand the schematic.
If you don't like the idea of the Legato then do us all a favor and by all means don't try to use it.
I understand now the Legato was designed specifically for ES9018; I am not familiar with its operation / specifications, but the short explanation from you re bias modulation at the output (and some reading through limited information on ES chips) has meant a fair bit, explained why it sounds the way it sounds, and why it will always sound different to properly implemented 1704’s, so thank you.
I am not going to comment your remark that my wish to obtain some specifications on your product / wish to use your product with 1704's in dual differential configuration is completely silly…. I’ll leave it at that.
I asked for help because I could not find any proper specs of your Legato 3 that are equivalents of OP input bias current and input offset voltage – two main factors in obtaining the best from 1704’s.
I also respect your statement that you don’t have interest in 1704’s… the only reason why I am writing all this and asking for help is because I don’t have interest in ES chips; I heard few players and DAC’s with these chips and was left with mixed feeling – dynamic but without character / low level resolution / micro-resolution –>but I can see why many here could love its sound – it is just not for me…
Boky
Yes, balanced to balanced is the best but that means a line driver or something similar in my case. Using the Ventus as a discrete balanced to SE stage would be a less complicated option. Thanks anyway.
Hi Boky,
The part I was saying was silly was that there would be any possibility that we were not interested in "Low level resolution".
As for the TI DAC you wish to use. I am just saying I don't have any time to spare to research it. It probably would work fine. Your just going to have to try it for yourself.
I can't say I agree with your assessment of the ES9018 in the least. So it's hard for me grasp exactly what you might be looking for in a DAC. Plus the statement you made seems to be painting with far too broad a brush. You said nothing about the way the DACs you heard were implemented.
As for Legato 3.1 I think if you ask most people who have heard it you would find strikingly different opinions from the picture you paint. It excels at reproducing "low level details" in every way.
In short - I was not commenting on your DAC choice at all. I simply did not design the output stage for the DAC you are using - though it should work fine for the DSD1794 and similar by only doubling the output swing I have never used the particular chip you are using.
Cheers!
Russ
The part I was saying was silly was that there would be any possibility that we were not interested in "Low level resolution".
As for the TI DAC you wish to use. I am just saying I don't have any time to spare to research it. It probably would work fine. Your just going to have to try it for yourself.
I can't say I agree with your assessment of the ES9018 in the least. So it's hard for me grasp exactly what you might be looking for in a DAC. Plus the statement you made seems to be painting with far too broad a brush. You said nothing about the way the DACs you heard were implemented.
As for Legato 3.1 I think if you ask most people who have heard it you would find strikingly different opinions from the picture you paint. It excels at reproducing "low level details" in every way.
In short - I was not commenting on your DAC choice at all. I simply did not design the output stage for the DAC you are using - though it should work fine for the DSD1794 and similar by only doubling the output swing I have never used the particular chip you are using.
Cheers!
Russ
Last edited:
Hot Legato
Hi Russ,
I just fired up a Legato 1.0.3 i had to replace an old IVY board and it is working ok but the transistors get very hot, is this normal ?
I have it connected to my lab PSU at +-15V ( 330 ma per channel ),
injected a sine wave on input and i do get a nice clean amplified wave at output .
The Temperature of the transistors is arround 65-75ºC according to my laser thermometer....too hot to touch for long....
Hi Russ,
I just fired up a Legato 1.0.3 i had to replace an old IVY board and it is working ok but the transistors get very hot, is this normal ?
I have it connected to my lab PSU at +-15V ( 330 ma per channel ),
injected a sine wave on input and i do get a nice clean amplified wave at output .
The Temperature of the transistors is arround 65-75ºC according to my laser thermometer....too hot to touch for long....
Interesting option indeed. An alternative to expensive AC coupling capacitors. I will read the Ventus thread. Thanks.
I need some help with the mezzanine connectors. I'm looking to stack the Buffalo I on top of the Legato 3. I have the 1.02 board so the screw terminal holes line up but there are no 0.100 holes for the three pin header.
I need to know a mouser or digikey part number for the right pins and recepticals so I can make a receptical that'll fit.
I need to know a mouser or digikey part number for the right pins and recepticals so I can make a receptical that'll fit.
When to use coupling capacitors to block the common mode DC?
I've started construction of my Buffalo I dac with Legato 3 output. My intentions are to use both Balanced and single ended ouputs. I understand that you can null the offset completely on the single ended and the blanced output but the balanced will still have common mode DC.
While my balanced headphone amp is still in the decision stage it will be one of the two, a newer revised dynahi or a balanced M³. The newest dynahi is differential balanced.
It my understanding that if you are balanced in ONLY, and balanced out ONLY, then any common mode dc is meaningless anyway. And, I should further pay attention to things that are bridged amps (like 4 channel B22) and fully differential balanced amps (like B24). But, I was also warned that while your balanced headphones may not "see" much of the common-mode offset because they are "cancelled", but the offset will reduce overall voltage swing (because "zero reference" is no longer at 0V).
So if I understand correctly I would not need them with a balanced M³ but I would with the new Dynahi? And I'm also a bit unclear if I didn't use caps and connected an amp that was safe if the voltage swing would be effected like I have been told.
I've started construction of my Buffalo I dac with Legato 3 output. My intentions are to use both Balanced and single ended ouputs. I understand that you can null the offset completely on the single ended and the blanced output but the balanced will still have common mode DC.
While my balanced headphone amp is still in the decision stage it will be one of the two, a newer revised dynahi or a balanced M³. The newest dynahi is differential balanced.
It my understanding that if you are balanced in ONLY, and balanced out ONLY, then any common mode dc is meaningless anyway. And, I should further pay attention to things that are bridged amps (like 4 channel B22) and fully differential balanced amps (like B24). But, I was also warned that while your balanced headphones may not "see" much of the common-mode offset because they are "cancelled", but the offset will reduce overall voltage swing (because "zero reference" is no longer at 0V).
So if I understand correctly I would not need them with a balanced M³ but I would with the new Dynahi? And I'm also a bit unclear if I didn't use caps and connected an amp that was safe if the voltage swing would be effected like I have been told.
sbelyo,
have you thought about using an IVY instead of a Legato. I just got a combo of a Buffalo-II/IVY-III DAC and a Beta 24 up an running. Very nice indeed.
The IVY does not have any offset and at least to my ears sounds as sweet as the Legato.
I put it all in a single case and are now waiting for the availability of the USB and S/PDIF mux boards to finish it up.
Cheers
Thomas
have you thought about using an IVY instead of a Legato. I just got a combo of a Buffalo-II/IVY-III DAC and a Beta 24 up an running. Very nice indeed.
The IVY does not have any offset and at least to my ears sounds as sweet as the Legato.
I put it all in a single case and are now waiting for the availability of the USB and S/PDIF mux boards to finish it up.
Cheers
Thomas
I feel the other way, it is the end of the world to use caps; I've spent so long messing around with $$$$ caps I want out.
Although I have IVY III, using opamps with a $1000+ discrete balanced headamp (B22 here) seems wrong.
One of the design points of these amps, especially the Dynahi is a very large voltage swing? In all honesty I don't understand the tech aspect of it but I can't risk building it to find I need caps.
Although I have IVY III, using opamps with a $1000+ discrete balanced headamp (B22 here) seems wrong.
One of the design points of these amps, especially the Dynahi is a very large voltage swing? In all honesty I don't understand the tech aspect of it but I can't risk building it to find I need caps.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.