I learn a great deal by studing and analyzing schematics.
I started this thread to explore ways of getting the lowest noise and distortion.
Some people like some types of distortion. But thats not what I want to talk about here.
Side question. Anatech, you spoke of antique radios and a phase linear amp. Do you collect old equipment? That would be most interesting.
I started this thread to explore ways of getting the lowest noise and distortion.
Some people like some types of distortion. But thats not what I want to talk about here.
Side question. Anatech, you spoke of antique radios and a phase linear amp. Do you collect old equipment? That would be most interesting.
Hi zenmasterbrain,
I learn a great deal from all of these activities. Nothing better than having the equipment, a test bench and the schematic. 😎
Phase Linear amplifiers are not my favorite, but I don't dislike them either. I have repaired enough of them over the years.
-Chris
I do. Everything from radios, to test equipment and audio equipment. I also design and build new. Mikeb's Symasym is very good so far.
I learn a great deal from all of these activities. Nothing better than having the equipment, a test bench and the schematic. 😎
Phase Linear amplifiers are not my favorite, but I don't dislike them either. I have repaired enough of them over the years.
-Chris
Zenmasterbrian, I have copied Cadac schematics for the standard input module and both linear and switching psu's, as well as gound and power bussing drawings. It will take me a day or two to scan them but I will let you know when they are on photobucket.
Btw, I was suprised to see all opamps in that desk are 5532's.
Btw, I was suprised to see all opamps in that desk are 5532's.
Hi imix500,
-Chris
I'm not. They have a good overall mix of characteristics. They sound good and are not expensive. That is a winning combination in manufacturing.
-Chris
imix500, what you are saying sounds fantastic.
brian.zenmaster@gmail.com
anatech, collecting stuff sounds great!
If you don't mind my asking, do you work in a shop that repairs high performance audio gear? Are you the owner of such a shop?
Electronics started for me in the 6th grade, with trying to fix things, like the amplifier for an organ, then with making crystal radios.
It continued with broken HiFi sets and TVs.
It really expanded for me in high school because we had a shop. I was in their during class, every recess, and after school too.
It continued at home too. We fixed all the bench equipment. Fixing oscilloscopes is lots of fun.
Color TV was always the most complex. The purity and convergence, but also the RF and IF alignment. The TVs of that era were real unreliable. I had one with about 40 tubes and solid state on top of that.
I had to trace out everything. The second IF stage transistor for example.
So I am no stranger to scopes, detector diode probes, high voltage, etc.
One once had an open winding in the saddle coils of the yoke. I made a wooden form out of 1/8" model plane plywood, and then rewound the coil.
Then there was the fun winding transformers. A way to start was to get an old one. See we had mountains of WWII surplus equipment, and newer stuff too.
So you use a BBQ to burn of all the varnish and tar, and the original bobbin. You cook the transformer almost hot enought to melt steel. Then let it cool, and scape off everything and then its just copper and the core pieces left.
Then make a new transformer.
Now, in the technology industries things are totally different for me. I supervise techs on benches, but I am not usually on a bench. Now some times I am there to help with some measurement set up. Sometimes I am there to help with probing the internal connections of an integrated circuit.
But most of the time my work is in writting proposals and plans and giving presentations in meetings.
Its not that far back that I was writting code, or drawing schematics, and especially running simulations.
My precollege experience serves me well in comparison to people that really don't have it.
But I'm also very mathematically and theoretically oriented.
Most of my professional accomplishments have been in the area of developing and implementing some new theoretical approach to a problem.
Here on this forum I've learned of lots of businesses which sell specialty audio boards or kits to hobbyests.
I wouldn't mind doing that myself, not at all.
I've never been a fan of the "High End" market segment. Its too oriented towards ostentatious display and very high prices and luxury home fat cats.
But I do like extreme audio. But I like the doings of hobbyests more.
I also like commercial sound reinforcment systems.
There, now you know some about me.
brian.zenmaster@gmail.com
anatech, collecting stuff sounds great!
If you don't mind my asking, do you work in a shop that repairs high performance audio gear? Are you the owner of such a shop?
Electronics started for me in the 6th grade, with trying to fix things, like the amplifier for an organ, then with making crystal radios.
It continued with broken HiFi sets and TVs.
It really expanded for me in high school because we had a shop. I was in their during class, every recess, and after school too.
It continued at home too. We fixed all the bench equipment. Fixing oscilloscopes is lots of fun.
Color TV was always the most complex. The purity and convergence, but also the RF and IF alignment. The TVs of that era were real unreliable. I had one with about 40 tubes and solid state on top of that.
I had to trace out everything. The second IF stage transistor for example.
So I am no stranger to scopes, detector diode probes, high voltage, etc.
One once had an open winding in the saddle coils of the yoke. I made a wooden form out of 1/8" model plane plywood, and then rewound the coil.
Then there was the fun winding transformers. A way to start was to get an old one. See we had mountains of WWII surplus equipment, and newer stuff too.
So you use a BBQ to burn of all the varnish and tar, and the original bobbin. You cook the transformer almost hot enought to melt steel. Then let it cool, and scape off everything and then its just copper and the core pieces left.
Then make a new transformer.
Now, in the technology industries things are totally different for me. I supervise techs on benches, but I am not usually on a bench. Now some times I am there to help with some measurement set up. Sometimes I am there to help with probing the internal connections of an integrated circuit.
But most of the time my work is in writting proposals and plans and giving presentations in meetings.
Its not that far back that I was writting code, or drawing schematics, and especially running simulations.
My precollege experience serves me well in comparison to people that really don't have it.
But I'm also very mathematically and theoretically oriented.
Most of my professional accomplishments have been in the area of developing and implementing some new theoretical approach to a problem.
Here on this forum I've learned of lots of businesses which sell specialty audio boards or kits to hobbyests.
I wouldn't mind doing that myself, not at all.
I've never been a fan of the "High End" market segment. Its too oriented towards ostentatious display and very high prices and luxury home fat cats.
But I do like extreme audio. But I like the doings of hobbyests more.
I also like commercial sound reinforcment systems.
There, now you know some about me.
Hi zenmasterbrian,
Well, I began studying by myself. They stuck me on independent study in high school. I did attend Ryerson Polytechnic Institute.
During and after school I worked at a parts jobber and ran their in house service shop. Chief cook and bottle washer. Also their semiconductor and loudspeaker sections. I also spent time as a stereo salesman before that. After Ryerson, I started my own service business which I ran for 16 years. My wife ran the office and I did the high end service. We ended up up a 6,000 sq foot shop and many techs. I spent more time helping out the other guys than being productive on the bench. I sold that as the bottom was falling out of the service sector and worked in an instrument calibration lab (Transcat). After a year and a bit, I began a career in Telecommunications. I do everything from installing and programming, through service and troubleshooting to system integration, design and project management. I've done High end audio service throughout this time at home.
I can't say that all high end people or equipment is bad. There are complete rip-offs that come along from time to time. What I can say is that "mid-fi" has become decidedly uninteresting.
It's been a varied and rewarding life so far. I wonder what the next step is.
So there is a bit of my background Brian.
-Chris
Well, I began studying by myself. They stuck me on independent study in high school. I did attend Ryerson Polytechnic Institute.
During and after school I worked at a parts jobber and ran their in house service shop. Chief cook and bottle washer. Also their semiconductor and loudspeaker sections. I also spent time as a stereo salesman before that. After Ryerson, I started my own service business which I ran for 16 years. My wife ran the office and I did the high end service. We ended up up a 6,000 sq foot shop and many techs. I spent more time helping out the other guys than being productive on the bench. I sold that as the bottom was falling out of the service sector and worked in an instrument calibration lab (Transcat). After a year and a bit, I began a career in Telecommunications. I do everything from installing and programming, through service and troubleshooting to system integration, design and project management. I've done High end audio service throughout this time at home.
I can't say that all high end people or equipment is bad. There are complete rip-offs that come along from time to time. What I can say is that "mid-fi" has become decidedly uninteresting.
It's been a varied and rewarding life so far. I wonder what the next step is.
So there is a bit of my background Brian.
-Chris
I'm not so attracted to aspects of the High End business. I just use it a something to get ideas from.
Most of the consumer type audio stuff is sold in huge discount stores. I don't see how there could be any money in it for independent dealers or service shops.
But I am attracted to commerical sound, for live music, and also to the the small specialty businesses that sell things to hobbyests. I find this very interesting. I'm talking about modules, kits, parts.
Remember, heath kit went out of business. Making stuff into kits, and dealing with all the associated problems, costs more than making finished products.
But selling sub kits, meaning modules, PCBs, and parts kits, but leaving the hobbyest to figure out how to do the rest of it is viable.
I think there is a market for better heatsink options and better enclosure options.
I think it unfortunate that most electronics is basically disposable today.
I think if it is offered in a more hobbyest and open standards way, I believe this could change.
Most of the consumer type audio stuff is sold in huge discount stores. I don't see how there could be any money in it for independent dealers or service shops.
But I am attracted to commerical sound, for live music, and also to the the small specialty businesses that sell things to hobbyests. I find this very interesting. I'm talking about modules, kits, parts.
Remember, heath kit went out of business. Making stuff into kits, and dealing with all the associated problems, costs more than making finished products.
But selling sub kits, meaning modules, PCBs, and parts kits, but leaving the hobbyest to figure out how to do the rest of it is viable.
I think there is a market for better heatsink options and better enclosure options.
I think it unfortunate that most electronics is basically disposable today.
I think if it is offered in a more hobbyest and open standards way, I believe this could change.
Hi zenmasterbrian,
I believe things will not go back to the "good old days", ever. The dollar is king and what you are talking about is not viable. There are other costs that are not factored into our disposable society that will have to be reckoned with some day.
For now, industrial suppliers determine what we can access. By their good will, we have access to components. We will have to shift our construction methods to match the industry common practices. That means smt type construction.
Things are what they are. Heathkit isn't coming back any time soon.
-Chris
I believe things will not go back to the "good old days", ever. The dollar is king and what you are talking about is not viable. There are other costs that are not factored into our disposable society that will have to be reckoned with some day.
For now, industrial suppliers determine what we can access. By their good will, we have access to components. We will have to shift our construction methods to match the industry common practices. That means smt type construction.
Things are what they are. Heathkit isn't coming back any time soon.
-Chris
<<
For now, industrial suppliers determine what we can access.
>>
I agree with this. And today, money buys more than it did decades ago. So there is good.
But look at the homebuilt PC market. Its sub assemblies, not soldering to the board. But when you have open standards, you can have this king of market develop.
I believe this could be there for audio, and most of your common home electronics, and more.
( The last Heathkit I build was a computer. The digital board was presoldered and tested. But I stuffed and soldered analog board for the BW monitor. )
By promoting open standards, hardware and software, we can get leverage. Things can become less disposable.
For now, industrial suppliers determine what we can access.
>>
I agree with this. And today, money buys more than it did decades ago. So there is good.
But look at the homebuilt PC market. Its sub assemblies, not soldering to the board. But when you have open standards, you can have this king of market develop.
I believe this could be there for audio, and most of your common home electronics, and more.
( The last Heathkit I build was a computer. The digital board was presoldered and tested. But I stuffed and soldered analog board for the BW monitor. )
By promoting open standards, hardware and software, we can get leverage. Things can become less disposable.
From this fourm I have learned of lots of people selling kits and subassemblies of all sorts.
They tend not to be full finished appliance kits like heathkit. Rather its boards and subassemblies. This is actually more flexible. I always wanted to be able to modify and add to my heathkits anyway.
They tend not to be full finished appliance kits like heathkit. Rather its boards and subassemblies. This is actually more flexible. I always wanted to be able to modify and add to my heathkits anyway.
Heathkit was an ideal fit for vacuum tube HF HAM radio. The rigs, the tuners, the accessories, and all the test eqipment.
The technology was good for diy, point to point wiring.
The HAMs are heads up and will usually be able to make it work and will be satisfied customers. They will try to collect all the things for their radio station, and all the test equipment too.
I just saw a book in a store that showed PCs people had built into real spacey packages. I think DIY audio could learn from this, especially for digital.
The technology was good for diy, point to point wiring.
The HAMs are heads up and will usually be able to make it work and will be satisfied customers. They will try to collect all the things for their radio station, and all the test equipment too.
I just saw a book in a store that showed PCs people had built into real spacey packages. I think DIY audio could learn from this, especially for digital.
Hi Guys interesting talk
about smds the wide adoption by the industry of this garbage
technology that is after all fully automated and ends up
disposable isnt good for the service industry and good production
practice i remember when i serviced camcorders full of smds and
i had to unsolder parts without proper soldering/desoldering
equipment i would make a mess of a repair to cut the long
story short smds make equipement disposable and unservicable
ecconimics and assembly robots dont think they just make junk
resist smds theyre not good!
john
about smds the wide adoption by the industry of this garbage
technology that is after all fully automated and ends up
disposable isnt good for the service industry and good production
practice i remember when i serviced camcorders full of smds and
i had to unsolder parts without proper soldering/desoldering
equipment i would make a mess of a repair to cut the long
story short smds make equipement disposable and unservicable
ecconimics and assembly robots dont think they just make junk
resist smds theyre not good!
john
Hi John,
I'll admit that sm components can make life difficult for the average hobbyist, they aren't that bad.
The first things I messed around with were tubes. Then PCB's and transistors (they were the end!). After came IC's (for sure the end of servicing and hobbies). Now the IC's and transistors are smaller. SO for the immediate future, things simply look different.
I still routinely service equipment constructed with surface mount components. I also need reading glasses these days, but I've adjusted.
As far as your average cheap consumer goods are concerned you are right. For a long time, manufacturers have not wanted product serviced. Now we are at the stage where parts are typically not stocked either. That stuff is disposable. I saw it coming and sold my shop (just as the market in my area tanked). There are other markets since technicians for consumer goods are no longer welcome on a mass level. After the rest of us are gone, who will service this equipment?
-Chris
I'll admit that sm components can make life difficult for the average hobbyist, they aren't that bad.
The first things I messed around with were tubes. Then PCB's and transistors (they were the end!). After came IC's (for sure the end of servicing and hobbies). Now the IC's and transistors are smaller. SO for the immediate future, things simply look different.
I still routinely service equipment constructed with surface mount components. I also need reading glasses these days, but I've adjusted.
As far as your average cheap consumer goods are concerned you are right. For a long time, manufacturers have not wanted product serviced. Now we are at the stage where parts are typically not stocked either. That stuff is disposable. I saw it coming and sold my shop (just as the market in my area tanked). There are other markets since technicians for consumer goods are no longer welcome on a mass level. After the rest of us are gone, who will service this equipment?
-Chris
johndiy said:
I call it Recyclonomics. Why do they continue calling it Economics? 😉
Speaking of recording consoles, yesterday I witnessed a show where a huge expencive console was used, superb microphones, compressors/gates on each channel, graphic EQs, Crown amps, JBL speakers, and a handheld spector analyzer on top of the console. And it sounded like a drummer used kitchen pots and bar stools, electro piano as through vintage WWW-II era headphones, bass fart()d... Hmmm....
Wavebourn, that's generous of you. Photobucket won't let me post pdf's. How can I get them to you?
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