Bridge Zappulse 2.3SE
@ richie00boy
Yes, that is right.
I hooked that second amp a the first amp, do you think that is the problem?
The wire diagram is a copy how I solder the Bridge Zap 2.3SE.
@ Joep Zonnebloem
The power supply now, is exact the same how I play with the Zap 2.2SE, so that is not the problem.
Rudy
@ richie00boy
Yes, that is right.
I hooked that second amp a the first amp, do you think that is the problem?
The wire diagram is a copy how I solder the Bridge Zap 2.3SE.
@ Joep Zonnebloem
The power supply now, is exact the same how I play with the Zap 2.2SE, so that is not the problem.
Rudy
Attachments
Rudy, when I look at the picture of your mono amp, I'm wondering how long the wires are between the caps and the Zappulse modules. They should be as short as possible! Is it an option to place the caps in a horizontal position to realize shorter wires?
best regards, Theo
best regards, Theo
Hello,
Forgive my ignorance, or don't, but does the version of your modules in question still use black gates? They can take a very long time to break in, 300 hours isn't a shock. People have said they continually improve over months. Now should you have it broken in and then change the configuration to say a full bridge set up, you may have to endure that burn-in period all over again.
Rudy,
I agree with richie00boy about the way you've "hung" one module off the other. You should be using seperate wires from each module directly to the +- cap terminals, thick and short. Might not hurt to keep each power rail wire (+- for going to each amp) identical in length to one another.
The input wires should be twisted where possible.
Where I think your sound is likely being degraded the most, as far as wiring goes, is the way you've got your Power Ground wiring. Where your caps connect to each other, you have very heavy and turbulent (read-- noisy as hell) current flow. You've basically placed an inductor between them (the wire) and then tapped off each side of the inductor for each amp's ground, that's going to throw things off I think, you need them waking, sleeping, breathing, pulses pumping, all synchronously.
Use a short, thick gauge wire to tap a single spot from between your caps, run it to a "star ground" point on your chassis (when I say short I'm thinking a few inches), then wire your power grounds to that new "star point ground". This way you've got your power ground hooked up further away from the noisiest spot it can possibly be, (very turbulent current flow between those caps), and also gotten rid of the "inductor" between your power grounds by wiring them both directly to the same point.
Don't do a cheap job on the star point either, it's worth researching. Also run all your grounds to that star point through seperate wires (star topology) any others you may have that is.
(Can someone comment on whether or not the signal ground should be connected to the star point as well or is it internally connected to power ground? I don't know.)
Hmm what else.... right, an alternative approach you sometimes see is the use of a thick copper plate to connect the two common cap terminals, then you make a point on that plate (_not_ directly between the two terminals as that's where most of the turbulent current flow would be) your star point. I like that idea myself, seems to clean up a few things and you can use the plate to mount your caps with as well. I don't know which method would sound best though.
If you try this please get back to us with the results good or bad.
Regards
Chris
Forgive my ignorance, or don't, but does the version of your modules in question still use black gates? They can take a very long time to break in, 300 hours isn't a shock. People have said they continually improve over months. Now should you have it broken in and then change the configuration to say a full bridge set up, you may have to endure that burn-in period all over again.
Rudy,
I agree with richie00boy about the way you've "hung" one module off the other. You should be using seperate wires from each module directly to the +- cap terminals, thick and short. Might not hurt to keep each power rail wire (+- for going to each amp) identical in length to one another.
The input wires should be twisted where possible.
Where I think your sound is likely being degraded the most, as far as wiring goes, is the way you've got your Power Ground wiring. Where your caps connect to each other, you have very heavy and turbulent (read-- noisy as hell) current flow. You've basically placed an inductor between them (the wire) and then tapped off each side of the inductor for each amp's ground, that's going to throw things off I think, you need them waking, sleeping, breathing, pulses pumping, all synchronously.
Use a short, thick gauge wire to tap a single spot from between your caps, run it to a "star ground" point on your chassis (when I say short I'm thinking a few inches), then wire your power grounds to that new "star point ground". This way you've got your power ground hooked up further away from the noisiest spot it can possibly be, (very turbulent current flow between those caps), and also gotten rid of the "inductor" between your power grounds by wiring them both directly to the same point.
Don't do a cheap job on the star point either, it's worth researching. Also run all your grounds to that star point through seperate wires (star topology) any others you may have that is.
(Can someone comment on whether or not the signal ground should be connected to the star point as well or is it internally connected to power ground? I don't know.)
Hmm what else.... right, an alternative approach you sometimes see is the use of a thick copper plate to connect the two common cap terminals, then you make a point on that plate (_not_ directly between the two terminals as that's where most of the turbulent current flow would be) your star point. I like that idea myself, seems to clean up a few things and you can use the plate to mount your caps with as well. I don't know which method would sound best though.
If you try this please get back to us with the results good or bad.
Regards
Chris
For some reason that ground 'link' is the way LC Audio specify in their handbook for the ZAPpulse. It seems dodgy to me -- I would wire using star like you say.
In my experience signal grounds are always best taken to the board itself.
In my experience signal grounds are always best taken to the board itself.
Bridged Zappulse 2.3SE
Hello, all
I use a thick copper plate to connect the two common cap terminals 0.5cm thick and 3,5cm width that is good, and that is also my star ground.
My star ground must that also connected to the chassis?
I also send Sunday a mail to LC Audio and Brenda told me today, the wire connection was good and she send the mail to her boss.
When I get an answer from Lars, than I solder the wires so you say.
I don’t have black gates on my zap’s
Thanks for all the answers, I wait for the email from LC Audio and than I replaces the wires.
80 volt Mundorf M-Lytic HC caps 47.000µF
L= 12nH; tan-d = 0,22
ESR typ = 0,005 Ohm
Ripplestrom = 100A
Hochleistungs-Thermalfolie
Temperaturbereich: -40 bis +85°
Lebensdauer +40° = >540.000 h
Lebensdauer +85° = >20.000 h
Click here fore better resolution pictures: http://members.home.nl/wincent24/
Greetings,
Rudy
Hello, all
I use a thick copper plate to connect the two common cap terminals 0.5cm thick and 3,5cm width that is good, and that is also my star ground.
My star ground must that also connected to the chassis?
I also send Sunday a mail to LC Audio and Brenda told me today, the wire connection was good and she send the mail to her boss.
When I get an answer from Lars, than I solder the wires so you say.
I don’t have black gates on my zap’s
Thanks for all the answers, I wait for the email from LC Audio and than I replaces the wires.
80 volt Mundorf M-Lytic HC caps 47.000µF
L= 12nH; tan-d = 0,22
ESR typ = 0,005 Ohm
Ripplestrom = 100A
Hochleistungs-Thermalfolie
Temperaturbereich: -40 bis +85°
Lebensdauer +40° = >540.000 h
Lebensdauer +85° = >20.000 h
Click here fore better resolution pictures: http://members.home.nl/wincent24/
Greetings,
Rudy
Re: Bridged Zappulse 2.3SE
/Sven-Åke
I can see on your pictures that you use a softstart from LCAudio so did i too,but it really choked the amplifier.Maybe it was something wrong with it but when i tried without, the amplifier really could play loud.with the softstart the amp "clipped" very early and dìdn`t sound good. Try without and see if it makes any difference.I have a 50V 1000VA trafo and it starts up with no problems without the softstart.Nice looking car by the way.BMW850 said:
/Sven-Åke
Re: Re: Bridged Zappulse 2.3SE
My LCaudio softstarts work OK. I use them for the supply of my UcD180 modules. The UcDs do not sound choked. I modified the power resistor (lower value) since I have 100V mains overhere in Japan and with the default resistor, the supply caps were hardly charged up before the relay bypassed the power resistor. If the softstart works correctly, you should hear the relay clicking shortly after startup. If that relay does not come up, you will listen to an amp with a large resistor in series with your transformer. That may explain why your amplifier sounded choked. The supply voltage would quickly breakdown when the zappulse tries to deliver power.
Best regards
Gertjan
sven-ake said:
My LCaudio softstarts work OK. I use them for the supply of my UcD180 modules. The UcDs do not sound choked. I modified the power resistor (lower value) since I have 100V mains overhere in Japan and with the default resistor, the supply caps were hardly charged up before the relay bypassed the power resistor. If the softstart works correctly, you should hear the relay clicking shortly after startup. If that relay does not come up, you will listen to an amp with a large resistor in series with your transformer. That may explain why your amplifier sounded choked. The supply voltage would quickly breakdown when the zappulse tries to deliver power.
Best regards
Gertjan
Bridge Zappulse 2.3SE
Hello, all
This weekend I have take 1 zap out of the amplifier and listen again, because the bridge zap is not a good zap, maybe I do something wrong, several times I emailed the LC Audio company.
I am very disappointed about the fact that I don’t get any response from my technical mails.
The only one who respond to my mails was Brenda, I am pleased that she did this, but she was not the one I wanted to talk to about my problem.
I write this message on the forum not because I want to put the company in a bad light and I still want to do business with them and the product they provide are good.
I am just disappointed about the correspondence with the company about technical problems.
So, now about the sound quality from 1 Zappulse 2.3SE.
The sound is back, more depth and detail in the music than with the Bridge Zap.
This is what I want to hear with the Bridge Zap, same quality but more Power.
Every body thanks from all the response, the only thing what I don’t have don was the wires connections direct from the caps, maybe it is stupid that I didn’t do this, because I was afraid to damage the zappulse with to much soldering on it.
Greetings,
Rudy
Hello, all
This weekend I have take 1 zap out of the amplifier and listen again, because the bridge zap is not a good zap, maybe I do something wrong, several times I emailed the LC Audio company.
I am very disappointed about the fact that I don’t get any response from my technical mails.
The only one who respond to my mails was Brenda, I am pleased that she did this, but she was not the one I wanted to talk to about my problem.
I write this message on the forum not because I want to put the company in a bad light and I still want to do business with them and the product they provide are good.
I am just disappointed about the correspondence with the company about technical problems.
So, now about the sound quality from 1 Zappulse 2.3SE.
The sound is back, more depth and detail in the music than with the Bridge Zap.
This is what I want to hear with the Bridge Zap, same quality but more Power.
Every body thanks from all the response, the only thing what I don’t have don was the wires connections direct from the caps, maybe it is stupid that I didn’t do this, because I was afraid to damage the zappulse with to much soldering on it.
Greetings,
Rudy
Hi Rudy
Can you tell me under which name you have mailed your questions to me? I will try to look it up, and possibly give you some feedback.
Unfortunately i get more mails than i can possibly read / answer. Some days, when i have replied to one e-mail, and press the send and receive button, 3 new mails come in, and the same again next time.
I try to answer those with short questions that are easy to reply on, meaning thoise with a clear question. And if there are more than one question, i try to reply to those where the sender have numbered the questions. If there are like 10 questions, i simply don't have enough time to read / reply to all.
Those with a long life story, where half of the text has nothing to do with L C Audio or the question, or audio for that matter, i have no possible way of reading at all, in the time given. Let alone giving any meaningful reply. You would be surprised if you knew how many we get of those every day ...
It's really simple, i get an average of 50 mails every day and spend 10 minutes reading, processing, and writing the reply on each mail, this is 500 minutes or .. 8.33 hours every day. And still i have not done any of the real work in my company .... So you see, the short mails have the best chance. 😉
Can you tell me under which name you have mailed your questions to me? I will try to look it up, and possibly give you some feedback.
Unfortunately i get more mails than i can possibly read / answer. Some days, when i have replied to one e-mail, and press the send and receive button, 3 new mails come in, and the same again next time.
I try to answer those with short questions that are easy to reply on, meaning thoise with a clear question. And if there are more than one question, i try to reply to those where the sender have numbered the questions. If there are like 10 questions, i simply don't have enough time to read / reply to all.
Those with a long life story, where half of the text has nothing to do with L C Audio or the question, or audio for that matter, i have no possible way of reading at all, in the time given. Let alone giving any meaningful reply. You would be surprised if you knew how many we get of those every day ...
It's really simple, i get an average of 50 mails every day and spend 10 minutes reading, processing, and writing the reply on each mail, this is 500 minutes or .. 8.33 hours every day. And still i have not done any of the real work in my company .... So you see, the short mails have the best chance. 😉
Hey Lars,
Why don`t you make a forum on your website?
Most Q/A must be equal to a lot of people.
Then you just can follow the treads 30 min. a day, and
hope everybody is satisfied 🙂
Id read a lot of forums, when planing/building my Zappulse project. Offen I`d read about people who are frustrated about the mail service you offer.
You`re homepage too is misserable, with a lot of missing link.
This is not a good thing by time I think.
Me myself, had only very good experience with LC audio. In 30 min. I can drive to your office, and until now, I had better service at LC Audio, than anything else I`d tried 🙂
I`m sure to do a lot more buisiness at your shop in the future 🙂
Venlig hilsen Jan Jensen
Why don`t you make a forum on your website?
Most Q/A must be equal to a lot of people.
Then you just can follow the treads 30 min. a day, and
hope everybody is satisfied 🙂
Id read a lot of forums, when planing/building my Zappulse project. Offen I`d read about people who are frustrated about the mail service you offer.
You`re homepage too is misserable, with a lot of missing link.
This is not a good thing by time I think.
Me myself, had only very good experience with LC audio. In 30 min. I can drive to your office, and until now, I had better service at LC Audio, than anything else I`d tried 🙂
I`m sure to do a lot more buisiness at your shop in the future 🙂
Venlig hilsen Jan Jensen
blaaberg: Thank You 🙂
Rudy: I have found your e-mail copied to me from Brenda. From your nice drawing it seems you have connected everything right, an so the connections should not be the reason why the sound gets bad, when the amps are bridged.
So my theory is one of these two:
1..Your speakers demand a very high current drive, and so this drive is naturally reduced when the amps are bridged, compared to the nice low impedance you have when connected directly to the Mundorph M-Lytics (which i presume have a very low impedance).
2..The power wires between the modules and the M-Lytics are long or thin, and so reduces the current feed to the modules.
I don't know if any of the above theories apply, as i have only seen a drawing of your amplifier.
Lastly i would personally never use a balanced (or bridged) amplifier for hifi because they always seem to have a colder and flatter sound compared to that of a normal single leg amplifier. But that is just an opinion.
I hope you demo went well, i trust with the huge power supply you have constructed, the sound must be very good. 🙂
All the best from
Lars Clausen
Rudy: I have found your e-mail copied to me from Brenda. From your nice drawing it seems you have connected everything right, an so the connections should not be the reason why the sound gets bad, when the amps are bridged.
So my theory is one of these two:
1..Your speakers demand a very high current drive, and so this drive is naturally reduced when the amps are bridged, compared to the nice low impedance you have when connected directly to the Mundorph M-Lytics (which i presume have a very low impedance).
2..The power wires between the modules and the M-Lytics are long or thin, and so reduces the current feed to the modules.
I don't know if any of the above theories apply, as i have only seen a drawing of your amplifier.
Lastly i would personally never use a balanced (or bridged) amplifier for hifi because they always seem to have a colder and flatter sound compared to that of a normal single leg amplifier. But that is just an opinion.
I hope you demo went well, i trust with the huge power supply you have constructed, the sound must be very good. 🙂
All the best from
Lars Clausen
Shouldn't he have connected both amp modules directly to the caps instead of hanging one off the other?
richie00boy: You are absolutely right, but i'm not sure it would have made the difference.
It appears to me that the properties he describe are inherent of bridged amplifiers. In some cases these properties can be improved by optimising the power supply to bridging, for example by connecting the main caps from + to - rails directly, not in series over the GND potential, but still i have never heard a bridged / balanced amplifier that sounded so warm and smooth like a 'single leg' setup of the same type of amplifier.
Best regards
Lars
It appears to me that the properties he describe are inherent of bridged amplifiers. In some cases these properties can be improved by optimising the power supply to bridging, for example by connecting the main caps from + to - rails directly, not in series over the GND potential, but still i have never heard a bridged / balanced amplifier that sounded so warm and smooth like a 'single leg' setup of the same type of amplifier.
Best regards
Lars
I agree with blaaberg that a forum at lcaudio webbsite would be very nice and an effective way to communicate with customers.
I can't complain about the email support from lcaudio, Lars himself answered my email within 5 minutes! That's very good! And as Lars said in an earlier post, keep your questions short and it is more likely that you get an answer.
I can't complain about the email support from lcaudio, Lars himself answered my email within 5 minutes! That's very good! And as Lars said in an earlier post, keep your questions short and it is more likely that you get an answer.
Thank You for this proposal. I have been working on this idea for some time, but still need to make a few functions. One is a language package, so it can be active in different languages.
But most of the forum is up and running, but only in a closed test area of the site.
🙂
But most of the forum is up and running, but only in a closed test area of the site.
🙂
Hey,
Here you can see my Zappulse project. It`s written in danish, but you can look at the pictures if you like 🙂
http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23335&PN=1
Each monoblock is powered with:
-Zappulse 2.3SE modules
-ELFA 800W / 42VAC
-4 pc. 33.000yF BC series 154 electrolyts
-2 pc. 35A block rectifier
-Silver kabling (2,5mm x 0,3mm) with virgin coldpressed linoil
There`s little hiss and hum, when there is no cable connect at line in. It`s very low, and does not disturb me in the daily use 🙂
Anyway, they sound beautyfull, and I like the sound a lot.
Venlig hilsen Jan Jensen
Here you can see my Zappulse project. It`s written in danish, but you can look at the pictures if you like 🙂
http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23335&PN=1
Each monoblock is powered with:
-Zappulse 2.3SE modules
-ELFA 800W / 42VAC
-4 pc. 33.000yF BC series 154 electrolyts
-2 pc. 35A block rectifier
-Silver kabling (2,5mm x 0,3mm) with virgin coldpressed linoil
There`s little hiss and hum, when there is no cable connect at line in. It`s very low, and does not disturb me in the daily use 🙂
Anyway, they sound beautyfull, and I like the sound a lot.
Venlig hilsen Jan Jensen
hello,
i'm making the power supply for my 5 zappulse 2.3SE.
I want to do a supply for the gate drive ( 20V DC tied to the -60V rail)
My question:
Is it a problem if the gate drive voltage appears 1 or 2 seconds before the 2 power rails ( +/-60V) ?
I have this delay caused by the softstart.
Do you test snubbers on the power supply ?
thanks.
Seb
i'm making the power supply for my 5 zappulse 2.3SE.
I want to do a supply for the gate drive ( 20V DC tied to the -60V rail)
My question:
Is it a problem if the gate drive voltage appears 1 or 2 seconds before the 2 power rails ( +/-60V) ?
I have this delay caused by the softstart.
Do you test snubbers on the power supply ?
thanks.
Seb
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