Blade 2 horizontal directivity:
Kef R11:
I don't know if it's just me, but I'd swear the blade has a narrower horizontal beam than the R11. Not perfect, but I see nothing that validates your worry of the blade side woofers that wouldn't be a worry with the R11. An even larger worry on the R11 I'd say.
Is it just the side mount of the woofers that we clearly see that makes you worry this much about them? Because in real life they actually do result in a narrower horizontal pattern when placed this way. They kind of act like a bigger source with more beam forming, not like 4 separate woofers.
You can keep calling it a design exercise, I'd call it form follows function. It's closer to the elusive point source this way. Is it ideal? Not just yet. There's still room for improvement. But it's pretty clever once you look at what it achieves instead of what the eye sees and wrongfully imagine the things it doesn't do.
Edit: I guess I should have made the images equally in size so the scales match up. It would be even more obvious to see my point that way.
Good point, I didn't consider the side placement is essentially adding some horizontal separation between the woofers so narrowing directivity. Just as vauable as the vertical directivity offered by WWCWW.
THE ULTIMATE QUESTION IN AUDIO ... is ???
Before making any judgements about a speaker in your listening room you need to test your setup conditions with this ultimate recording :
What if both speakers are rendering the spatial image equally good?
And isn't hearing the final sentence about the presentation?
Why do you rely on simulations/measurements , those one-dimensional toolz for foolz 🙂
Track 4 should be also tested outdoors , if room properties are in doubt ...
Vice versa : Optimize the room first! (1st reflection points etc)
regards , Deep Thought 🙂
Before making any judgements about a speaker in your listening room you need to test your setup conditions with this ultimate recording :
What if both speakers are rendering the spatial image equally good?
And isn't hearing the final sentence about the presentation?
Why do you rely on simulations/measurements , those one-dimensional toolz for foolz 🙂
Track 4 should be also tested outdoors , if room properties are in doubt ...
Vice versa : Optimize the room first! (1st reflection points etc)
regards , Deep Thought 🙂
Because they actually work to improve my listening pleasure? 😀
It isn't ideal and the directivity chart shows it, but it does work.
No worries……50 degrees to 1k is more than fine. The R11 could have used a round over on the baffle which would have smoothed out the horizontal as well……that’s easyBlade 2 horizontal directivity:
Kef R11:
I don't know if it's just me, but I'd swear the blade has a narrower horizontal beam than the R11. Not perfect, but I see nothing that validates your worry of the blade side woofers that wouldn't be a worry with the R11. An even larger worry on the R11 I'd say.
What is concerning is that you’d need to spend another $17k to get a Directivity extension lower……..if I had a ‘worry’….it would be that.
As I mentioned earlier, I WANT the room to be part of the performance…..the 3D space Synergy that emerges. Highly directive midbass just sounds fake…..there’s no coupling of the energy at volume. I’ve recorded in many great rooms and the drum rooms are always the most memorable….placement of the room ribbons is critical so you can capture the ‘actual’ room decay desired. Otherwise….it’s back to expensive headphones and headspace.……nothing more ‘pragmatic‘ than that…….to the point of defeating the purpose.
Been think outside the box after my last post, recalling my tour of Abbey Road a while back ( never worked there…..beyond my status) and admiring the B&W 800 monitors that were in nearly every control room (not every really, but I think I counted 5 installations)…….the spherical midrange housing……hmmm
I wonder how the Uni Q would do installed in a 10-12” sphere?
I wonder how the Uni Q would do installed in a 10-12” sphere?
I thought we were talking about the design and DIY, not cost of the original.
Adding some directivity in the mid-bass will not remove the room from the sound, just reduce it a little. I for one do not like modal resonances in the mid-bass in fact chesty vocals where some frequency goes ommmmm annoys me greatly.
We are……all fwd firing woofers allow for more placement options in smaller spaces and the build-ease of the construction would be simpler than prototyping a Blade enclosure.
My comment on cost was to justify my earlier statement on hi design and the associated cost…….who KEF was likely marketing these to…….it ain’t high end audiophiles……they don’t cost enough to make the cut. Lol……..and it ain’t the pragmatic listener who’d likely rather spend the difference on a Euro trip or a new kitchen for the missus.
My comment on cost was to justify my earlier statement on hi design and the associated cost…….who KEF was likely marketing these to…….it ain’t high end audiophiles……they don’t cost enough to make the cut. Lol……..and it ain’t the pragmatic listener who’d likely rather spend the difference on a Euro trip or a new kitchen for the missus.
The data doesn't suggest that to me. I think narrower mid-bass horizontal directivity means less troublesome placement close to side walls.
Personally I love reading about those DIY projects that are not pragmatic 😀 I still remember drooling over the photos of ShinObiwans speakers.
So do you guys think the Satori coax is good enough or is it better to buy a used pair of R3's and scavenge the drivers from them?
The Satori got more surface area and could probably be crossed a little lower wich can't be negative, but is the tweeter integration good enough?
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/sb-a...2DDSk_7tMwYRTki77zKJwJwtqDY08XwxoCNKwQAvD_BwE
The Satori got more surface area and could probably be crossed a little lower wich can't be negative, but is the tweeter integration good enough?
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/sb-a...2DDSk_7tMwYRTki77zKJwJwtqDY08XwxoCNKwQAvD_BwE
There’s NO WAY that woofers firing right against side walls down to 40hz are not going to be problematic…..the laws of physics still exist and directivity isn’t an epiphany.
I think it’s really important to recognize the difference between nearfield measurements and what things actually look and sound like at the LP……..we’re getting farther and farther away from it.
Harvest the drivers from a pair of Q350’s then…..the Meta material advantage can be realized without the price tag and mambo jumbo…….put the Uni Q in a larger enclosure with walls well lined and add an aperoidic vent……nearly the same results….at least to the point that maybe…..maybe you can hear a difference…….unless sighted listening is your thing.
On first glance, but look at how ragged the transition from one colour to the next is in the R11. Vert chaotic whereas the blade is much better defined.
dave
Look again......the banding on the blade is significant and the color matrix for the graphs are different.
...specifically for the guy who's all about the DDR and the things that can't be measured 🙄