OK - fair enough
Instead try the Goldwood GW-1538 at $71 (US) a pair which are also 15" drivers. I don't think there's a lower priced high-Q woofer out there.
Unfortunately the xovers will also add to the cost. By my calcs you'll need two 20 uF capacitors and two 5 mH coils per speaker. Costs per xover at PartsExpress are as follows:
(2) 5 mH Jantzen 20 gauge air core (255-060) @ 14.28 ea. = $28.56
(2) 20 uF Dayton metallized polypropylene caps (027-436) @ 4.95 ea. = $9.90
or $38.46 each (before taxes and shipping).
All in including the B3S ($9.57), the GW-1538 ($35.50), and xover ($38.46) they will cost $83.53 per speaker for parts.
If you want to stick with the BS3 on its own it might be very satifisfying to put two in a 9" x 12" OB (both on center, with one 3" up from the bottom and the 2nd 9" up) and use as a nearfield monitor. They should be at least 12" out from a back wall - there they may provide enough upper bass to work reasonably well. Any additional width that can be built in (wings on either side?) and further away from the wall you can get will improve the freq resp. But there will always be a high low freq limit for a driver with a Fs = 80 Hz
I'm only suggesting two BS3s to lower the distortion figure and improve sensitivity. One will provide approximately the same freq resp.
Incidently I really like what I hear about this driver and have two on order.
I'm only suggesting two BS3s to lower the distortion figure and improve sensitivity. One will provide approximately the same freq resp.
Incidently I really like what I hear about this driver and have two on order.
Muddy mid-base
Yes, I would imagine the midbase doesn't sound as good as you'll get from a good 7" driver.
3" drivers like this have bass response, distortion, and power handling issues. That's why Zaph recommends ("requires") crossing them over to a sub around 150 hz. Running them full range, you reach their 3mm xmax at about 2 watts. Crossed over LR4 at 150hz, that goes up to 64 watts, and shifts any bass response and distortion problems to your sub
.
I just finished building a pair of Zaph's design, and they're way better than the cheap little KLH three ways I used before (see photo). Better stereo separation and less distortion. The sound is much 'clearer'.
If you want deeper and less muddy bass, try the Aurasound N3-193-8A. They have less bass distortion than the HiVi's. You'll have make new front baffles, and the baffle step and notch filter is different. They'll cost $20 each vs $10 for the HiVi's. There's info on using them with this enclosure in Zaph's archive.
These are classic DIY speakers. Crossed over, they'll give you better sound than a lot of commercial speakers, and are way less expensive.
Mike.
cotdt said:
Yes, I would imagine the midbase doesn't sound as good as you'll get from a good 7" driver.
3" drivers like this have bass response, distortion, and power handling issues. That's why Zaph recommends ("requires") crossing them over to a sub around 150 hz. Running them full range, you reach their 3mm xmax at about 2 watts. Crossed over LR4 at 150hz, that goes up to 64 watts, and shifts any bass response and distortion problems to your sub
. I just finished building a pair of Zaph's design, and they're way better than the cheap little KLH three ways I used before (see photo). Better stereo separation and less distortion. The sound is much 'clearer'.
If you want deeper and less muddy bass, try the Aurasound N3-193-8A. They have less bass distortion than the HiVi's. You'll have make new front baffles, and the baffle step and notch filter is different. They'll cost $20 each vs $10 for the HiVi's. There's info on using them with this enclosure in Zaph's archive.
These are classic DIY speakers. Crossed over, they'll give you better sound than a lot of commercial speakers, and are way less expensive.
Mike.
Attachments
I commented on that up several posts ago. Since then I've been thinking "why?!" The Fs is too high and its really too small a driver. You need 16 of them to match the area of just a 12" driver and 25 to match a 15" driver....
The B3S is a very nice driver but its not appropriate for an OB without crossing over to a woofer.
The B3S is a very nice driver but its not appropriate for an OB without crossing over to a woofer.
holdent said:
That's the idea. A pair of Silver Flute 8" drivers will only run me $60, and should give very nice performance far past 150hz down to 40hz. (Some people have used them as subwoofers, with excellent results.)
I'm trying to build a poor man's Orion, if you have'nt guessed. Open baffle B3S's + a woofer in a ported box.
I'm wondering, though, if a 9x12" baffle is a bit small. Would a larger baffle work better, or worse? (I figure it would give me better bass extension from the B3s.)
I'm a far better metalworker than I am a woodworker, so the idea of polycarbonate open baffles with copper reinforcement sounds very good to me. (Plus, they'd look awesome.) I'm going for a traditional "tower" speaker look, if possible - these will likely be for home theater use.
I figure I'll drive both the woofer and B3Ss each with a seperate OPA549, and use an active crossover. I'm not sure if they work so well at 4 ohms, though - perhaps 4 B3s drivers in a series/parallel configuration would work better.
I guess the answer is "it depends". If you are planning to crossover at 150 Hz the minimum required baffle size may be around 22" (see http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/Barfind/open-baffle-size-vs-freq.gif). Note however -- JohninCR discussed problems with this chart over at Decware's forum (http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=diy;action=display;num=1143087829;start=420).
I modelled two Hi-Vi B3S' (ussing Martin King's MathCad worksheets for OBs) in two different baffles; one that was 9 x 32" and one that was 12 x 42" (the Orion dims are 13" x 46"). The B3S' were 4 and 8" down from the top of the baffle in both cases. In both baffles the B3S' dropped off very rapidly from 300 Hz down.
----
Incidently Linkwitz's Orion has two woofers in U-shaped baffles (one facing to the front and one facing to the back) not a ported box. See the sample pics at www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_us_examples.htm I looked at the Silver Flute W20RC38-S (at www.madisound.com) in a U-shaped baffle 16" long with mouth and terminous 1.5 x the Sd and 3.0 x Sd of the driver. The results were terrible - this isn't a good driver for this application.
Maybe you're thinking of cloning a Bastanis Atlas (www.bastanis.com/us/atlas.htm) or Prometheus? These use sealed woofer cabs I think. Humble Homemade HiFi's Modulus (www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Modulus.html) is another example. If "yes" then why not move the xover point up to 500 Hz? Then you can use the B3S and make the baffle as small as you want. As well you can use a simpler xover.
A word of warning - Tony Gee, the designer of the Modulus, had a very difficult time integrating the bass unit with the OB portion of the speaker.
I modelled two Hi-Vi B3S' (ussing Martin King's MathCad worksheets for OBs) in two different baffles; one that was 9 x 32" and one that was 12 x 42" (the Orion dims are 13" x 46"). The B3S' were 4 and 8" down from the top of the baffle in both cases. In both baffles the B3S' dropped off very rapidly from 300 Hz down.
----
Incidently Linkwitz's Orion has two woofers in U-shaped baffles (one facing to the front and one facing to the back) not a ported box. See the sample pics at www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_us_examples.htm I looked at the Silver Flute W20RC38-S (at www.madisound.com) in a U-shaped baffle 16" long with mouth and terminous 1.5 x the Sd and 3.0 x Sd of the driver. The results were terrible - this isn't a good driver for this application.
Maybe you're thinking of cloning a Bastanis Atlas (www.bastanis.com/us/atlas.htm) or Prometheus? These use sealed woofer cabs I think. Humble Homemade HiFi's Modulus (www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Modulus.html) is another example. If "yes" then why not move the xover point up to 500 Hz? Then you can use the B3S and make the baffle as small as you want. As well you can use a simpler xover.
A word of warning - Tony Gee, the designer of the Modulus, had a very difficult time integrating the bass unit with the OB portion of the speaker.
holdent said:
I'd like to push the crossover point from the B3Ss as low as possible - at 500hz, you might as well be using a tweeter. 150hz looks like a good place, I'd think - above that, the distortion is low, and with a notch filter (active), the response curve is nice and flat.
Yes, this is not an ideal configuration - but it should beat the carp out of a standard satellite/subwoofer setup.
Maybe I’m just stupid or blind but I can find one Notch filter fore the b3s.
I know that Zaph made a filter, but that filter will cost me over the double as the driver.
I wonder, Have anyone tried other notch filters on this diver?
We are 3frends that are going to buy 4 speakers each, and make different box designs just to have some fun.
So I’m tying to gather some info and designs fore this driver.
I know that Zaph made a filter, but that filter will cost me over the double as the driver.
I wonder, Have anyone tried other notch filters on this diver?
We are 3frends that are going to buy 4 speakers each, and make different box designs just to have some fun.
So I’m tying to gather some info and designs fore this driver.
It shouldn't be.
At those frequencies, a difference of 30Hz won't matter too much. You just won't have the same power handling before Xmax (but there won't be a huge amount of difference)
Here's an idea for you guys (if you're still reading this...)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/142027-new-idea-eliminate-need-bsc.html
You could try them set up as shown in this thread...
Chris
At those frequencies, a difference of 30Hz won't matter too much. You just won't have the same power handling before Xmax (but there won't be a huge amount of difference)
Here's an idea for you guys (if you're still reading this...)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/142027-new-idea-eliminate-need-bsc.html
You could try them set up as shown in this thread...
Chris
I also built the Zaph design and use the speakers with a subwoofer. Though I like the sound, I would really like to integrate the little hivi speakers with a driver. I have looked at other designs and I have not found an implementation of these speakers in a simple two.way or three-way design. I am a newbie, so maybe I just don't understand that these speakers can not be simply be combined with woofer. Goal: Small two or three way with the hivi B3S. Any thoughts?
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