In case that you are serious, Jan, then I understand all of that 'engineering' evaluation of sound. You do not need music, then.
PMA said:
Sorry, you lost me. I don't understand your reaction. Isn't it obvious that a good recording, well miked and well mixed, reproduced with top equipment at home, can give you better detail, better soundstage, etc, than a live concert, where you are (mostly) in a non-optimal position to the orchester, with a much higher noise floor with all those people moving and rustling, non-linear frequency response and acoustics that may or may not be ok? Are you guys pulling my leg?
Jan Didden
I'm fortunate in that our local concert hall has superb acoustics. The sound is far better than what I can get at home.
Of course, at home, I can get John Coltrane and Eric Dolphy. At the concert hall, I get the Butte Symphony 😀
Of course, at home, I can get John Coltrane and Eric Dolphy. At the concert hall, I get the Butte Symphony 😀
janneman said:
Well, let's separate the experience of attending live concert and the experience of listening to music at home. I refer here mainly to classical music concerts.
In attending live concerts, there are 2 major things that cannot possibly be reconstructed.
One is that we dress up, drive there and, meet others who are also dressed up.
Also, we may read the program booklet, about the composer, the music, the conductor and performers.
The second thing is a human atmosphere between the conductor and the performing musicians and between the musicians themselves. Performing a concert isn't only playing notes, the right note, at the right time, in the right tempo and the right volume – it is making music collectively. This human atmosphere of "making music" cannot possibly be constructed, definitely not fully, by electro-mechanical means.
So, my aspiration and expectation in my sound system is to reconstruct the sound itself, as closely as possible.
Obviously, it is impossible to reconstruct the sound fully, for few reasons.
One main reason is that the dynamic range of a symphonic orchestra cannot be attained in a reasonable home audio system.
The width of the stage cannot be reconstructed as well, not at home (unless one may live in a castle, which I'm not).
Also, AFAIK, there is no speakers system that reconstructs faithfully the sound of various musical instruments, piano, timpani, cello, violin, trumpet, etc.
So, a full faithful reconstruction of concerts is impossible.
What can be aimed is a reconstruction which is as close to faithful reconstruction as possible.
This is at least my own aim with the sound system and this, of course, costs a lot of money. I do wish I'd find low cost audio system that will satisfy me. So far, I didn't find one. Also, I don't have the best system, for my means are limited.
Yes, I definitely agree with you that there are very many poor recordings (or mixings, or whatever some sound engineers do).
However, I'd like to enjoy to the best of my ability those good recordings I have.
Andre Visser said:
Or perhaps you need a system upgrade.
😀 😀 😀
I need a room upgrade. My house in California had high, sloping ceilings, a concrete slab-based floor, and excellent acoustics. Here, I'm stuffed into a rather small second-story flat with flimsy floors; my turntable is all-but-unusable.
Maybe YOU do, but I figure that I paid for my ticket, I can dress comfortably. I'd say half our audience here is in jeans and flannel shirts (it's a bit colder here than there), so I'm not alone in my preference.
SY said:
It is the same situation here, and my tickets are for almost ideal position in the hall.
SY said:
That was a manner of speaking, relating to others as well.
Usually I don't dress up – I go to a concert for the music, not for a possible social event.
SY, here in Europe or in Israel we have different manners regarding dress when we go to visit a classical music concert. I remember those people in Wallmart when I visited Ohio in 2002 😀 .
Joshua_G said:
I agree to most of your post here, and indeed things are never totally black and white. It is also very, very difficult to compare the sound-only of a live concert, for precisely the factors you mentioned.
Dynamic range of the home stereo is one of the weak points, agreed, but not all performances are very high dynamic range, and there is always the noise and rustle in a venue that limits the actual dynamic range you are hearing.
Maybe you have been more lucky than I in your live concerts. And the important thing is to enjoy both live and canned music, and that we both do obviously.
Jan Didden
PMA said:
A classical concert is just about the only occasion i have to wear a long cashmere coat i bought in London some years ago.
In April 1983 i attended the King Sunny Adé concert in Germany, the huge wife of the Nigerian ambassador in Germany danced in a totally transparent African dress right in front of the stage, you could see everything swirl and sway and believe you me it was more than plenty.
(images of Mrs Ambassador's top and bottom goodies were also transmitted on Germany's third TV station)
That was just about the only entertaining bit of the concert, both the album and later the CD were/are far more pleasing to listen to, even by today's standards.
http://www.rockpalastarchiv.de/rn12_e.html
I've heard many very expensive audio systems, some of them also very good. And I very often visit concerts, mostly jazz. Never in my life I've heard audio system that would sound better than live. Even most of amplified jazz concerts I've been to sounded better then what I heard at anyone's home. Maybe it was because of live feed.
But, people listen to different things when listening to music. Some are into dynamics, some into soundstage, some into timbre, and some into music.
Once I invited my audiophile friend who rarely went to concerts to some big-band concert. It was unamplified in relatively small venue and the sound was to my ears awsome. Going home I asked him what he thinks about the sound. To my neverending surprise he said: "It was OK, but my system sounds so much better!" Go figure...
😕
But, people listen to different things when listening to music. Some are into dynamics, some into soundstage, some into timbre, and some into music.
Once I invited my audiophile friend who rarely went to concerts to some big-band concert. It was unamplified in relatively small venue and the sound was to my ears awsome. Going home I asked him what he thinks about the sound. To my neverending surprise he said: "It was OK, but my system sounds so much better!" Go figure...
😕
I have never found a sound reproduction system that was really adequate in every way.
However, some recordings can be made 'better positioned' than where many of us can afford or luck out in a live venue.
So many live venues where even folk music is now all electric, including the violins. I find my home system easier to listen to, than this.
My associate, Brian Cheney, is doing an acoustic live vs recorded at CES this week. There will be live, with real musicians, then the same performance after being record in SACD format. It will be at 'The Show' with VMPS. See you there, or be
However, some recordings can be made 'better positioned' than where many of us can afford or luck out in a live venue.
So many live venues where even folk music is now all electric, including the violins. I find my home system easier to listen to, than this.
My associate, Brian Cheney, is doing an acoustic live vs recorded at CES this week. There will be live, with real musicians, then the same performance after being record in SACD format. It will be at 'The Show' with VMPS. See you there, or be
- Status
- Not open for further replies.