I think this diagramm I did recently for a chip-amp related question relates well to the things John is talking about...
- Klaus
- Klaus
When I think of applying electricity to a light bulb, I think of 2 wires: One into the light bulb and one returning from the light bulb. Is either wire more important? Does it really matter if AC or DC is applied? However, one of these wires will shock you if you touch it, and the other will usually not shock you. This is because the voltage drop across the light bulb which converts to external power when current flows across the light bulb as well, drops the potential voltage from many volts from the earth to what is usually very close to earth, so that you could touch the 'return' wire even if you were standing barefoot on wet dirt, and not be harmed.
Of course, you could 'float' the return to be 1/2 the voltage and you might be harmed if you then touched it and the wet dirt at the same time.
Now what does this have to do with amps? Well, amps generate external power and so they require a 'ground' return, where 'ground' in this case is really a common point that is often associated with the chassis in some way. Often the 'ground' is taken for granted and this can be a potential problem with power supplies.
Well done, Klaus. Great diagram.
Of course, you could 'float' the return to be 1/2 the voltage and you might be harmed if you then touched it and the wet dirt at the same time.
Now what does this have to do with amps? Well, amps generate external power and so they require a 'ground' return, where 'ground' in this case is really a common point that is often associated with the chassis in some way. Often the 'ground' is taken for granted and this can be a potential problem with power supplies.
Well done, Klaus. Great diagram.
john curl said:
Um, John, EITHER wire will shock you if you touch it provided you're providing an electrical path back to the other wire. Similarly, NEITHER wire will shock you if you're not providing an electrical path back to the other wire.
Huh?
The voltage drop across the light bulb is whatever voltage is applied across the light bulb, which in most cases is 120 volts.
What you're thinking of here has to do with the fact that the neutral line is connected to a literal earth ground at the service panel. This means that neutral and earth are (theoretically) at the same potential. So if you touch the neutral wire while you're standing on the ground, you're theoretically at the same potential and you're not constituting an electrical path back to hot.
Yes. So? What's that to do with "forward filtering" and "return filtering" and "the return path back to the power line"?
se
john curl said:
Ok.
But can you at least say what it is exactly that you're calling "the return path back to the power line"?
se
john curl said:
If you can't say just what "it" is in a sentence or two, then chances are you don't quite know what you're talking about. And I'm not interested in any of your silly "look it up" goose chases.
se
Everyone else, please try 'Wikipedia' as it has a good explanation with only a few sentences.
john curl said:
Yes everyone else. Never mind that you haven't been told just what it is that you're supposed to enter in the search box once you get there in order to get this good explanation. Just sit there and stare at the screen for an hour or so and eventually the explanation will appear before your eyes as if by magic.
se
john curl said:
Actually the phrase "ground return path" turns up nothing on Wikipedia.
If you search for anything containing the words "ground," "return," and "path" you get over 3,000 results.
Second on the list is "Ground (electricity)."
Is that what people should be looking at? If so, exactly what couple of sentences in that article explains what it is you're referring to when you say "Unfortunately, many here think only of the forward filtering and not so much about the return path back to the power line"?
se
john curl said:
Um, if you Google the expression first, the Wiki response is the same entry I mentioned previously. It takes you to "Ground (electricity)."
Anyway, I've had enough of your silly games, John. If you don't know what you're talking about, just say so.
se
Tony said:
Great. And since John continues to refuse to do it, would you care to share with the rest of us just what the IT is?
se
the ground return path in the wikipedia...😀
here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)
here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)
no problem, i work as a QC/QA inspector for a construction of LNG plant here in Sahkalin island, so i can understand the importance of good grounding....😀
Tony said:
Great. So now we all know that "ground" may refer to everything from the surface of the earth to a football stadium. But we know nothing more now than we did some 20 posts ago what this means:
Unfortunately, many here think only of the forward filtering and not so much about the return path back to the power line.
Just another smoke screen.
se
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