Parts Cost:Selling Price ratio
I recall an IEEE article not so long ago where the author recommended that if you, as a professional/graduate engineer, worked for/reported to a company/manager who believed that the selling price was some fixed multiple of the manufactured cost then you should start looking for a new job very fast.
If your business is able to extract a higher price from its customers on a continued basis due to a high perceived value then it will suceed where others fail.
The criticism of the <insert current product under discussion> manufacturer for getting a higher value than you personally perceive is valid is just plain wrong. Would you (this is referred to no one in particular) prefer that all prices be regulated? - I've lived under that kind of regime (and it included wage/salary regulation as well) and it ain't pretty.
In this context, we are talking about the cost of items that are rich folk's toys - nothing more. Lighten up, guys.
janneman said:
I recall an IEEE article not so long ago where the author recommended that if you, as a professional/graduate engineer, worked for/reported to a company/manager who believed that the selling price was some fixed multiple of the manufactured cost then you should start looking for a new job very fast.
If your business is able to extract a higher price from its customers on a continued basis due to a high perceived value then it will suceed where others fail.
The criticism of the <insert current product under discussion> manufacturer for getting a higher value than you personally perceive is valid is just plain wrong. Would you (this is referred to no one in particular) prefer that all prices be regulated? - I've lived under that kind of regime (and it included wage/salary regulation as well) and it ain't pretty.
In this context, we are talking about the cost of items that are rich folk's toys - nothing more. Lighten up, guys.
Re: Parts Cost:Selling Price ratio
The IC biz routinely works at <40% margins on some lines.
VivaVee said:
The IC biz routinely works at <40% margins on some lines.
SY said:
There must be some facet that I'm missing. How about macro-resistors made out of solid carbon nanotubes?
I drive a Porsche 944, BUT I used to drive a 924 for years, and found it great bang for the buck, and a wonderful cornering car, even better than the 944 that I have. Gave it to my nephew more than 5 years ago. The 944 engine is 1/2 a 928 engine. Tires (Bridgestone) are slightly wider than the 924. 5 speed rather than 4 speed gearbox, power steering, so the steering wheel can fit properly, etc. Not a 911, BUT I am happy enough.
Grey, I don't specifically disagree with you on ANYTHING. I just put that in to cover myself from abuse by others. Apparently they got to be abusive anyway.
Scott, I'm afraid that you are not studied on the subject of nanotubes and what they can do. Please read up first, for your sake, as well as mine.
john curl said:
Let's get back to circuits, this other stuff has to be boring to most people here. BTW I think Grey and Bear are some of the good guys, so what if we disagree on some things. At the Burning Amp everyone buried all these stupid axes and had some fun.
scott wurcer said:
Huh? This thread would have evaporated years ago if it wasn’t an arguably loony soap opera.
scott wurcer said:
You could, but why? I just don't see that it gets you anything other than "It's nano, that'll be $10 extra, please." Interparticle resistance will still dominate excess noise irrespective of what goes on in the individual tubes. Real-world CNTs are highly tangled mats, not the neat little chicken-wire cylinders that the drawings promise.
john curl said:
How true, as SY now knows the great minds of this industry carry on behind the scenes much like we do here.
Grey,
You have misrepresented what was said between the two of us through private email exchanges. That is not allowed for one.
Right now my opinion of you is that you are untrustworthy, unreliable and definitely underhanded.
I will obviously not get into a private exchange between us, but suffice to say that the purpose was to find out what bothered him about a post I have made earlier. The fact that there is disagreement between us does not constitute any outrageous claims or statements on my part.
Grey. You lied. You also misrepresented what the exchanges were between us. You did this on a public forum.
Hi John,
Be careful and think of the exchanges we have had both privately and in the open. You should have some idea of how I conduct myself. I would ask you to refrain from encouraging Grey until you find out the truth at least. The only thing at stake would be your reputation in my eyes of course, but why flush it needlessly? I am fully aware that you may not be concerned as to my opinion towards you in the least, but some truth should peak through here.
Please note that I am responding as a normal member and not as a moderator. Being a moderator has no bearing at all on this event, nor will I take any action as a moderator on this.
I am extremely offended though.
-Chris
You have misrepresented what was said between the two of us through private email exchanges. That is not allowed for one.
Right now my opinion of you is that you are untrustworthy, unreliable and definitely underhanded.
I will obviously not get into a private exchange between us, but suffice to say that the purpose was to find out what bothered him about a post I have made earlier. The fact that there is disagreement between us does not constitute any outrageous claims or statements on my part.
This comment is a complete lie. I'm not even going to address the rest of the sewage you have posted.
Grey. You lied. You also misrepresented what the exchanges were between us. You did this on a public forum.
Hi John,
Be careful and think of the exchanges we have had both privately and in the open. You should have some idea of how I conduct myself. I would ask you to refrain from encouraging Grey until you find out the truth at least. The only thing at stake would be your reputation in my eyes of course, but why flush it needlessly? I am fully aware that you may not be concerned as to my opinion towards you in the least, but some truth should peak through here.
Please note that I am responding as a normal member and not as a moderator. Being a moderator has no bearing at all on this event, nor will I take any action as a moderator on this.
I am extremely offended though.
-Chris
But instead it is #1 ,approaching 1M views.
In my opinion , it adds "flavor and spice" to DIYaudio , a
wonderful diversion from all the "meat" ( #'s and theories).
Possibly this thread has made the forum as a whole into
the most popular. Loony ??? aren't we all ?
OS
GRollins said:
I noticed that this is at least the second time you've threatened to trash that thread. Is there some history here? Were you asked to not post to it?
Edit: Please do not respond by email.
Re: Parts Cost:Selling Price ratio
I wasn't critisizing the factor of 4, nor saying it is necessarily 4, just giving my experience/opinion. If someone can sell a 10 ct item for 4000 $, no problem with me. I would, if I could, but I just don't have the knack nor guts 😉
Jan Didden
VivaVee said:
I wasn't critisizing the factor of 4, nor saying it is necessarily 4, just giving my experience/opinion. If someone can sell a 10 ct item for 4000 $, no problem with me. I would, if I could, but I just don't have the knack nor guts 😉
Jan Didden
When it comes to pricing, I am no expert. Perhaps the highest price to cost of manufacturing ratio of anything that I use in my designs is the AD797 IC op amp. Ironic, isn't it?
However, ever onward.
I once mentioned that Parasound uses roughly a 4:1 ratio. I know this because my royalties are pinned against the landed cost price, so it has to be available for computation. That is the cost that Parasound pays the overseas vendor, for a boxed and preliminarily tested product.
Parasound then has to test it themselves, advertise it, ship it to a dealer, and in time, warranty repair the product. I have to be paid my small percentage for the 'design' of the circuit topology, Carl Thompson has to be paid for doing the circuit board layout, etc, etc. from Parasound's added 'costing'. Doesn't look so good, does it?
One of the reasons that we stopped making CTC products, is that the only regular customer base that we had left was Japan. They would pay us $10,000 and we would have to deliver, at some time in future. The SAME unit was advertised in Japan for about $50,000 or 5 Million yen, so their markups were very much or more than ours, EXCEPT that WE maintained the warranty on the product.
Well, our costs were about $3000 for the cases and knobs. Perhaps $1000 for the pots, switches, wire (thanks, Bear for your wonderful wire), connectors, etc. The boxes in their different stages of completion, had to be shuttled about to different processors by the late Bob Crump across town, adding a few more hours of time.
At this point, I come in with the electronics. I had to make 4 circuit boards composed of TEFLON for 2 of them, hand matched (by me) and ultra hi Idss selected 2SK389,2SJ109 pairs with 3 types of resistor specifically selected for the job done, Resista, Holco, and Caddock. EVERY resistor has to be mechanically cleaned and inserted, before soldering.
The output devices are also matched to a degree, and the less matchable parts used in the power supply buffers, both in the power supply box and on each line amp module.
The modules are constructed by tandem efforts by myself and a trusted technician. I usually source and match the parts, the tech, mounts and ultimately hand solders the parts individually with an expensive silver bearing solder. Wonder solder being the minimum cost solder normally used. etc, etc
It was fun for awhile, but it got old and prices for the parts got higher and higher.
For example, we had to use DUAL pots, in the last 5 orders to Japan, because Michael Percy ran out of singles in the value we needed, so we paid extra just to get the parts. Check out the TKD parts cost on Michael Percy's website, or any other.
I hope this gives a more accurate picture of what it takes to make a BLOWTORCH, and why I would rather work for Parasound to make my designs. Still, a Parasound is NOT a BLOWTORCH, any more than my 944 is a 911. Still, great bang for the buck.
However, ever onward.
I once mentioned that Parasound uses roughly a 4:1 ratio. I know this because my royalties are pinned against the landed cost price, so it has to be available for computation. That is the cost that Parasound pays the overseas vendor, for a boxed and preliminarily tested product.
Parasound then has to test it themselves, advertise it, ship it to a dealer, and in time, warranty repair the product. I have to be paid my small percentage for the 'design' of the circuit topology, Carl Thompson has to be paid for doing the circuit board layout, etc, etc. from Parasound's added 'costing'. Doesn't look so good, does it?
One of the reasons that we stopped making CTC products, is that the only regular customer base that we had left was Japan. They would pay us $10,000 and we would have to deliver, at some time in future. The SAME unit was advertised in Japan for about $50,000 or 5 Million yen, so their markups were very much or more than ours, EXCEPT that WE maintained the warranty on the product.
Well, our costs were about $3000 for the cases and knobs. Perhaps $1000 for the pots, switches, wire (thanks, Bear for your wonderful wire), connectors, etc. The boxes in their different stages of completion, had to be shuttled about to different processors by the late Bob Crump across town, adding a few more hours of time.
At this point, I come in with the electronics. I had to make 4 circuit boards composed of TEFLON for 2 of them, hand matched (by me) and ultra hi Idss selected 2SK389,2SJ109 pairs with 3 types of resistor specifically selected for the job done, Resista, Holco, and Caddock. EVERY resistor has to be mechanically cleaned and inserted, before soldering.
The output devices are also matched to a degree, and the less matchable parts used in the power supply buffers, both in the power supply box and on each line amp module.
The modules are constructed by tandem efforts by myself and a trusted technician. I usually source and match the parts, the tech, mounts and ultimately hand solders the parts individually with an expensive silver bearing solder. Wonder solder being the minimum cost solder normally used. etc, etc
It was fun for awhile, but it got old and prices for the parts got higher and higher.
For example, we had to use DUAL pots, in the last 5 orders to Japan, because Michael Percy ran out of singles in the value we needed, so we paid extra just to get the parts. Check out the TKD parts cost on Michael Percy's website, or any other.
I hope this gives a more accurate picture of what it takes to make a BLOWTORCH, and why I would rather work for Parasound to make my designs. Still, a Parasound is NOT a BLOWTORCH, any more than my 944 is a 911. Still, great bang for the buck.
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