Re: BS
😀 😀
Oh, come on, what gives you that idea?
BTW, do you have a lot of wind? I probably should be an Aquarius because my semi-veggie diet makes me pass an extraordinary amount of gas. Got verbally blasted by a manager at work after I let a real hallway resonator rip one morning. Scottish guy with a short fuse and an inability to utter more than 3 words without adding a f%^k. He complained that he could have had clients or department executives in his office at the time. 🙄
Cheers,
Glen
Edmond Stuart said:
😀 😀
Oh, come on, what gives you that idea?
BTW, do you have a lot of wind? I probably should be an Aquarius because my semi-veggie diet makes me pass an extraordinary amount of gas. Got verbally blasted by a manager at work after I let a real hallway resonator rip one morning. Scottish guy with a short fuse and an inability to utter more than 3 words without adding a f%^k. He complained that he could have had clients or department executives in his office at the time. 🙄
Cheers,
Glen
AndrewT said:
Ahh yes! (and thanks Morten). So, I shall place back-to-back diodes (or a bridge) in parallel with my cap & resistor. Right?
Jan Didden
almost.janneman said:
The diodes need to be parallel to conduct in both directions. They must pass high peak currents.
I call this inverse parallel diodes.
From the Motion Control World, there is UL508C. In it there is a test; Ground Bond.
This test pumps thousands of amps through the earth line between a product back to earth main. It simulates a fault for the purpose of determining;
Will the breaker panel explode
Does the fuse open or breaker trip before the panel or earth wires fail
This standard is way extreme and doesn't apply to audio but it makes the point of what Andrew is saying.
This test pumps thousands of amps through the earth line between a product back to earth main. It simulates a fault for the purpose of determining;
Will the breaker panel explode
Does the fuse open or breaker trip before the panel or earth wires fail
This standard is way extreme and doesn't apply to audio but it makes the point of what Andrew is saying.
janneman said:
Hmm, I guess so 😀
Combined with wiring that's capable of conducting high current.
Magura 🙂
Re: Re: BS
Glen,
Don't worry. It wasn't you who inspired me to such blasphemic ideas.
As for gas, up to now, I was always wondering why some people called Australia 'the a.r.s.e of the world'. 😀
To all: my apologies for being slightly off topic.
Cheers,
Edmond.
G.Kleinschmidt said:
Glen,
Don't worry. It wasn't you who inspired me to such blasphemic ideas.
As for gas, up to now, I was always wondering why some people called Australia 'the a.r.s.e of the world'. 😀
To all: my apologies for being slightly off topic.
Cheers,
Edmond.
SY,
On 12/21/05 you posted the following in a thread called "Audio Lies."
BEGIN
quote:
Is silver wire sounding bright and with a clarity in the upper range
while copper more warm and with a musical mid range?
Interesting that you should mention that, even as a joke. I was at a wire demonstration recently and that was exactly the difference that we "heard." Who knows, maybe it's true, but I sure wouldn't assert it as "fact" without doing a properly controlled test. If the difference we heard was real, then I am at a loss as to why it wouldn't be audible blind. Unless, of course, it's not real, just my human brain playing tricks on me. Naughty, naughty brain. Thinks about girls, then goes and fools me about wire.
END
So, no, I didn't make it up, and I don't appreciate you saying that I did.
The quote you were responding to was from lineup.
A few points:
--This isn't the post I was searching for. The tone of this one is clearly somewhat derisive; the one I remember was more thoughtful. That said, it covers pretty much the same ground. You may have posted more than once about the same experience, but I'm not sure how to track down the other post.
--I imagine you will defend the post by pointing out that you said you wouldn't accept the results without a 'properly controlled test.' No, I'm not interested in arguing about what constitutes a properly controlled test. There's been quite enough of that already.
--If I were the betting sort, I'd place money on the table and predict that you never followed up with any sort of test, proper or otherwise, which leads me back to one of my core points...
--On occasions when people who rely on measurements do observe a difference in audio gear, they discount the experience as unworthy and invalid. The immediate assumption is that human beings are so frail and prone to mistakes that there's no way the subjective impression of better--or even merely different--sound could be worth the effort to substantiate.
--The experience you relate above shows the actual psychological fault line in the mind of a measurements-oriented listener's psyche. A listener hears something by accident, as it were. The listener consults his/her belief system and finds that this is unacceptable. The listener then discards the difference heard as being merely the product of human frailty. Should the listener actually bother to listen again, they go into the listening session with the preconceived notion that there's nothing to hear, so naturally they don't hear--or disregard--any differences. But of course that particular preconceived notion isn't human frailty...that's science in action...(ahem)
--I make no claims about the sound of copper vs. silver vs. silver plated. As I said earlier, I found your post interesting because of the philosophical and psychological implications more than any metallurgical insights. I don't know what cables were involved and have no axe to grind regarding brand, composition, geometry, etc. Hell, I might even come to a contrary conclusion if I were to listen to the same gear.
--Speaking only for myself, I don't seriously evaluate things in a group setting if I can avoid it. There are several reasons for this, one of them being (as you imply in the post I quoted, so we're in agreement on this) the possibility of a sort of group-think or peer pressure situation developing. Another being that I don't know anyone in my immediate area whose hearing I respect. Audiophiles are rare enough as it is and there are even fewer of them in this corner of the country than elsewhere...and what few there are aren't as careful about listening as I'd like. Them's the breaks.
Grey
On 12/21/05 you posted the following in a thread called "Audio Lies."
BEGIN
quote:
Is silver wire sounding bright and with a clarity in the upper range
while copper more warm and with a musical mid range?
Interesting that you should mention that, even as a joke. I was at a wire demonstration recently and that was exactly the difference that we "heard." Who knows, maybe it's true, but I sure wouldn't assert it as "fact" without doing a properly controlled test. If the difference we heard was real, then I am at a loss as to why it wouldn't be audible blind. Unless, of course, it's not real, just my human brain playing tricks on me. Naughty, naughty brain. Thinks about girls, then goes and fools me about wire.
END
So, no, I didn't make it up, and I don't appreciate you saying that I did.
The quote you were responding to was from lineup.
A few points:
--This isn't the post I was searching for. The tone of this one is clearly somewhat derisive; the one I remember was more thoughtful. That said, it covers pretty much the same ground. You may have posted more than once about the same experience, but I'm not sure how to track down the other post.
--I imagine you will defend the post by pointing out that you said you wouldn't accept the results without a 'properly controlled test.' No, I'm not interested in arguing about what constitutes a properly controlled test. There's been quite enough of that already.
--If I were the betting sort, I'd place money on the table and predict that you never followed up with any sort of test, proper or otherwise, which leads me back to one of my core points...
--On occasions when people who rely on measurements do observe a difference in audio gear, they discount the experience as unworthy and invalid. The immediate assumption is that human beings are so frail and prone to mistakes that there's no way the subjective impression of better--or even merely different--sound could be worth the effort to substantiate.
--The experience you relate above shows the actual psychological fault line in the mind of a measurements-oriented listener's psyche. A listener hears something by accident, as it were. The listener consults his/her belief system and finds that this is unacceptable. The listener then discards the difference heard as being merely the product of human frailty. Should the listener actually bother to listen again, they go into the listening session with the preconceived notion that there's nothing to hear, so naturally they don't hear--or disregard--any differences. But of course that particular preconceived notion isn't human frailty...that's science in action...(ahem)
--I make no claims about the sound of copper vs. silver vs. silver plated. As I said earlier, I found your post interesting because of the philosophical and psychological implications more than any metallurgical insights. I don't know what cables were involved and have no axe to grind regarding brand, composition, geometry, etc. Hell, I might even come to a contrary conclusion if I were to listen to the same gear.
--Speaking only for myself, I don't seriously evaluate things in a group setting if I can avoid it. There are several reasons for this, one of them being (as you imply in the post I quoted, so we're in agreement on this) the possibility of a sort of group-think or peer pressure situation developing. Another being that I don't know anyone in my immediate area whose hearing I respect. Audiophiles are rare enough as it is and there are even fewer of them in this corner of the country than elsewhere...and what few there are aren't as careful about listening as I'd like. Them's the breaks.
Grey
So since that's not what I said, yes, you're making it up. That's easier, I suppose, than telling the truth.
Magura said:
At PL we have a test for that. Your bigger Keystone Thermistors will
survive the fuses or breakers we use if you do a direct short of AC
live to analog ground.
😎
Grey, what is really 'funny' and 'ominous' is that I was breaking in a new technician just yesterday, and I explained 'WIRE' to him.
First, I showed him a short piece of BEAR's silver wire. I said this is pure silver, VERY expensive, per foot, and takes 30 days break-in on the reel, and then another 30 days once wired in the product. He was 'impressed'. Then I showed him some quality copper wire from various manufacturers, and told him that this copper wire was much more 'forgiving' and did not need the same amount of break-in, but then I said that even copper 'dendrites' migrate, even at room temperature, and that appears to be the nature of 'break-in', but I had micro-photographs that prove it.
After this, we went to work testing and repairing microphone stages that I designed 20 years ago for Dave Wilson.
This is MY reality, and I am VERY successful, subjectively, with it.
Laugh all you want, 'engineers' and 'physicists' and keep your day job.
First, I showed him a short piece of BEAR's silver wire. I said this is pure silver, VERY expensive, per foot, and takes 30 days break-in on the reel, and then another 30 days once wired in the product. He was 'impressed'. Then I showed him some quality copper wire from various manufacturers, and told him that this copper wire was much more 'forgiving' and did not need the same amount of break-in, but then I said that even copper 'dendrites' migrate, even at room temperature, and that appears to be the nature of 'break-in', but I had micro-photographs that prove it.
After this, we went to work testing and repairing microphone stages that I designed 20 years ago for Dave Wilson.
This is MY reality, and I am VERY successful, subjectively, with it.
Laugh all you want, 'engineers' and 'physicists' and keep your day job.
Edmond Stuart said:
It was shown, I do not intend to repeat myself. Just to mention that idle current is above 1A, that makes situation very different from 30 mA class B.
JC-2
In the latest issue of Stereophile, March 09, the Parasound JC-2 is compared to the Simaudio Moon Evolution P-7 on page 95. In reading the whole review of the P-7 I was surprised to see that the P-7 used op-amps with no global negative feedback. At the end of the article the reviewer (John Atkinson) gave the P-7 a class A rating. Of course the JC-2 is A rated also.
In the latest issue of Stereophile, March 09, the Parasound JC-2 is compared to the Simaudio Moon Evolution P-7 on page 95. In reading the whole review of the P-7 I was surprised to see that the P-7 used op-amps with no global negative feedback. At the end of the article the reviewer (John Atkinson) gave the P-7 a class A rating. Of course the JC-2 is A rated also.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.