john curl said:
John,
I have tried the Hirata method several times; apparently, so did Bob Cordell. I have posted about some times ago:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1453596#post1453596
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1604560#post1604560
Could you at least once listen to a voice of reason and accept that Hirata's method won't reveal a damn thing about any competently designed amp, even at DIY level, built with 2009 components (discrete or ICs)? If you don't believe, try it yourself. If you get something significant, then I am willng to show you where the design flaw is and how to improve it, for free
Scott, Bear is just saying that headphones should have a technical advantage over the vast majority of loudspeaker systems. Especially with direct drive to the elements, if you use electrostatics. IF the headphones DON'T sound more revealing, then for most of us, they are just a waste of time. Good headphones are expensive, just like everything else.
Scott and Glenn,
No strawman here. The only issue is if things sound "bad" according to Scott using headphones, the question becomes why does it sound bad? Could it be that the phones themselves are not at fault?
IF the phones are not at fault, then what is?
The question isn't if PA speakers sound different than ESLs... etc... although it could be argued that given the same frequency response, speakers will not sound different at all?? Or, could we argue that one? But let's not get off course - the key point is that Scott reported something that is interesting - he reported hearing a BIG difference, when little or no difference was to be expected. The question is why did this happen.
Is Scott hearing more or with more clarity?
Or is Scott hearing a poorly engineered or defective transducer?
I think this is an important distinction.
_-_-bear
No one else is curious about this?
No strawman here. The only issue is if things sound "bad" according to Scott using headphones, the question becomes why does it sound bad? Could it be that the phones themselves are not at fault?
IF the phones are not at fault, then what is?
The question isn't if PA speakers sound different than ESLs... etc... although it could be argued that given the same frequency response, speakers will not sound different at all?? Or, could we argue that one? But let's not get off course - the key point is that Scott reported something that is interesting - he reported hearing a BIG difference, when little or no difference was to be expected. The question is why did this happen.
Is Scott hearing more or with more clarity?
Or is Scott hearing a poorly engineered or defective transducer?
I think this is an important distinction.
_-_-bear
No one else is curious about this?
syn08 said:
Could you at least once listen to a voice of reason and accept that Hirata's method won't reveal a damn thing about any competently designed amp, even at DIY level, built with 2009 components (discrete or ICs)? If you don't believe, try it yourself. If you get something significant, then I am willng to show you where the design flaw is and how to improve it, for free
Do you trust also your ears, or only measurements?
I ask it in an attempt to discern whether 2009 components design sounds better than say Blowtorch.
Why does anyone, including you Scott, participate here, if you don't want to contribute and perhaps learn something new yourself? You relatively recently called yourself a millionaire, while I live on social security and a small royalty base. I can barely pay my rent. And you want me to give whatever I have left to you and yours, yet you won't answer even the easiest questions about your own designs, perhaps claiming trade secrets?
I would like to reiterate here what is important about the CTC Blowtorch preamp.
Others have done an equivalent effort in making the best design possible, given their individual design philosophy.
The heart of the Blowtorch is TRYING to make every component that contributes to the preamp of the highest quality possible, reverting to hand assembly of many components, and choosing the BEST switches, wire, circuit board material, circuit board layout, circuit design, connectors, solder, and aluminum case (we couldn't afford silver) as an attempt to make the best preamp that can be made. We did what we did, mostly for ourselves, and sold the rest to make up for what it cost us in time and money to do it. What is wrong with this? Did we OVERDO it sometimes? Probably.
If you, out there, want to make something in a plastic box, or a steel one, feel free. I don't care. If you want to use a cheap IC, or a fairly expensive one, go for it. It makes no difference to me.
I am surprised that Scott and Bob Cordell haven't reverted to IC's for their power amps as well. Why not? How about the rest of you?
It is just like buying a BMW or a Mercedes, when a Ford will do it for you. If you can't or don't care about the difference, then don't invest in an uptown product. It would be silly to say that a Honda and a Porsche are virtually identical, even if they both had the same horsepower. Take it from me. I drove both today.
Others have done an equivalent effort in making the best design possible, given their individual design philosophy.
The heart of the Blowtorch is TRYING to make every component that contributes to the preamp of the highest quality possible, reverting to hand assembly of many components, and choosing the BEST switches, wire, circuit board material, circuit board layout, circuit design, connectors, solder, and aluminum case (we couldn't afford silver) as an attempt to make the best preamp that can be made. We did what we did, mostly for ourselves, and sold the rest to make up for what it cost us in time and money to do it. What is wrong with this? Did we OVERDO it sometimes? Probably.
If you, out there, want to make something in a plastic box, or a steel one, feel free. I don't care. If you want to use a cheap IC, or a fairly expensive one, go for it. It makes no difference to me.
I am surprised that Scott and Bob Cordell haven't reverted to IC's for their power amps as well. Why not? How about the rest of you?
It is just like buying a BMW or a Mercedes, when a Ford will do it for you. If you can't or don't care about the difference, then don't invest in an uptown product. It would be silly to say that a Honda and a Porsche are virtually identical, even if they both had the same horsepower. Take it from me. I drove both today.
Well said!
Now, I like to drive Ferraris and Bugattis, which is, I would say,
one step "above" Porsches.
How do we reach even higer levels in audio preamplifiers? A level "above" the BT.
A level like Jonathan Carr's designs maybe?
That is my quest.
John,
how about driving a Ferrari or Bugatti?
Sigurd
Now, I like to drive Ferraris and Bugattis, which is, I would say,
one step "above" Porsches.
How do we reach even higer levels in audio preamplifiers? A level "above" the BT.
A level like Jonathan Carr's designs maybe?
That is my quest.
John,
how about driving a Ferrari or Bugatti?
Sigurd
john curl said:
Yes, Pavel, it would indeed.
Or to test your line amp using much better passive components against a Halo JC-2.
Or a regular BT against a BT with a better pot and better resistors.
Not that there is somethign wrong with the BT,
but why stop there?
Why not try to make an ever better sounding line amplifier?
Is it even possible?
Try, try, try!
Sigurd
Or to test your line amp using much better passive components against a Halo JC-2.
Or a regular BT against a BT with a better pot and better resistors.
Not that there is somethign wrong with the BT,
but why stop there?
Why not try to make an ever better sounding line amplifier?
Is it even possible?
Try, try, try!
Sigurd
PMA said:
Let's be real, here. There are more expensive cars than I will ever own or even drive. I am aware of that. There are also better and more expensive loudspeakers than I will ever own. This is MY reality. I have chosen a path that has not led to wealth. I do not begrudge those who have it, and use it to buy the 'BEST'. That is their choice.
However, I had a chance to make the 'best' of preamps, or at least one approach in doing so, and I took it. I am not sorry for doing so, however most of you will never have a preamp quite as good as the Blowtorch, although with a bit of effort you can try to approach it. That is not my doing, but yours. However, I do not ridicule you for not investing as much as I have in being able to own a Blowtorch, as it is more expensive than most people can afford, just like an exotic sports car.
For the record, once again. A Parasound JC-2 is NOT a Blowtorch. It costs 1/4 as much and has twice the features. Yet, it is not as good as a Blowtorch, sonically. That is reality, as we, the designers, know it.
However, I had a chance to make the 'best' of preamps, or at least one approach in doing so, and I took it. I am not sorry for doing so, however most of you will never have a preamp quite as good as the Blowtorch, although with a bit of effort you can try to approach it. That is not my doing, but yours. However, I do not ridicule you for not investing as much as I have in being able to own a Blowtorch, as it is more expensive than most people can afford, just like an exotic sports car.
For the record, once again. A Parasound JC-2 is NOT a Blowtorch. It costs 1/4 as much and has twice the features. Yet, it is not as good as a Blowtorch, sonically. That is reality, as we, the designers, know it.
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