quote
The jabber of all the marketing bozos was just a distraction in the process.
unquote
😀 😀 😀
The jabber of all the marketing bozos was just a distraction in the process.
unquote
😀 😀 😀
thanks, you are much considerate, Scottscott wurcer said:
Of course, I had no idea. Like most people.
For some 😉 using a language beyond understanding
is an occupational injury! ( yrkesskada in swedish)
Like posting frequent 3-4 letter abbreviations.
scott wurcer said:
Almost- the clock is 1/10 the bit rate. The data streams are self clocking as well. There is a logic behind it, but I forget the logic immediately after I understand it. Displayport dispenses with the clock. I was making a reference to Manchester coding.
(In HDMI is called TMDS, transistion minimized differential signaling, LVDS w/ some coding efficiency)
Oh, I remember those days when Sony digital was forced down our throats by marketing forces.
Scott did you know Dr. Doi, or was it Dr. Stockham you are referring to.
My favorite 'story' was years after digital became 'standardized' (you know 44.1KHz AND 48KHz, but that's another story), a researcher demonstrated at the AES, in front of everyone, that digital can affect you in a negative way. This was important, because this researcher used music for therapy, and it stopped working with digital sources. Dr. Doi came right out of his chair!
Scott did you know Dr. Doi, or was it Dr. Stockham you are referring to.
My favorite 'story' was years after digital became 'standardized' (you know 44.1KHz AND 48KHz, but that's another story), a researcher demonstrated at the AES, in front of everyone, that digital can affect you in a negative way. This was important, because this researcher used music for therapy, and it stopped working with digital sources. Dr. Doi came right out of his chair!
x-pro said:
The OXCO you linked is pretty good. And a value. Here is what I was referring to: wenzel but I was mistaken about the price, they are $3500. You can get a little better here Oscilloquartz for around $10K and a 1 year lead time. Here is a comparison (these guys are a lot like audiophiles, trying to get the last little bit of performance) Time Nuts
maybe a bit OT but has this info been shared?
http://www.sg-acoustics.ch/analogue_audio/ic_opamps/pdf/opamp_distortion.pdf
http://www.sg-acoustics.ch/analogue_audio/ic_opamps/pdf/opamp_distortion.pdf
1audio said:
There are two main sides to a clock quality - the long-term stability and the phase noise. For digital audio stability is less important than the phase noise, however in these units you quoted the stability is a primary quality and it costs a lot more to implement.
Alex
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
esoteric G-0Rb
Regards
James
Diamond was the guy's name, if memory serves. His way of measuring this was... novel. There was someone else who claimed that digital sound caused microcracks in turntable spindles.
Yeah, there's no end to cranks. Anything not sufficiently familiar brings 'em out of the woodwork.
Rubidium is great for accuracy, but not phase noise, usually the rubidium is used to lock a quartz crystal. But absolute accuracy and stability, the real benefit of Rubidium, is less important in audio. The crystal phase noise problem is still there.
Fellow audio people, I am here to learn from others and teach what I have learned about audio design (whatever that is). NOW, we have come upon a new topic, that can be addressed intelligently, and certainly, I am learning more about xtal oscillators. Now when it comes to this sort of thing, why pollute it with scathing comments or 'over the top' stuff like atomic clocks? It is the noise of the oscillator that appears most important, not its drift over the years. Still, many here, IF you try, can actually learn about what MIGHT be less perfect in digital audio, perhaps more than you have previously realized. For example, I found the power supply noise vs oscillator noise very useful. Of course I had some idea that it existed, but I had no real numbers or graphs to show me what happens even the very best circuitry. I'm not surprised, that is why I can be such a fanatic about little things in an audio design.
Again, I want to thank Demian for his extensive contribution to this topic, because, unlike most of us, he knows what he is talking about on this subject. I want to encourage him to continue.
Again, I want to thank Demian for his extensive contribution to this topic, because, unlike most of us, he knows what he is talking about on this subject. I want to encourage him to continue.
I'm sorry SY, but I have personally conversed with both these 'cranks' and both are at your level in education. I believe both of them. Why don't you call me a 'crank' as well?
If you start peddling the kark that Diamond does and promote quack medicine, I would. Education is irrelevant, this is a matter of common sense.
Fortunately, you're a sensible enough guy to stick to your strength, engineering.
Fortunately, you're a sensible enough guy to stick to your strength, engineering.
John:
The questions about Cesium and Rubidium are both legitimate. I looked into them as well. And Teac seems to think its important. A Hydrogen Maser would be really over the top. But not necessarily better for audio. But is would give someone serious bragging rights in the $$$=good audio world.
Understanding the ways noise affects the output of a crystal oscillator (or any of the other sources) is more fundamental. I am interested in some of the Rubidium sources since they are programmable to the clocks we need and claim low phase noise. But I need to know more about them. Since they are available on e-bay for under $200 I may just explore it after CES. Still lots cheaper and faster than getting a Wenzel or Oscilloquartz oscillator. The harder part is analyzing the jitter spectrum and still harder is making sure that you aren't listening to a problem unrelated to what you were testing.
The questions about Cesium and Rubidium are both legitimate. I looked into them as well. And Teac seems to think its important. A Hydrogen Maser would be really over the top. But not necessarily better for audio. But is would give someone serious bragging rights in the $$$=good audio world.
Understanding the ways noise affects the output of a crystal oscillator (or any of the other sources) is more fundamental. I am interested in some of the Rubidium sources since they are programmable to the clocks we need and claim low phase noise. But I need to know more about them. Since they are available on e-bay for under $200 I may just explore it after CES. Still lots cheaper and faster than getting a Wenzel or Oscilloquartz oscillator. The harder part is analyzing the jitter spectrum and still harder is making sure that you aren't listening to a problem unrelated to what you were testing.
SY said:
cut and paste -
Level 2 Defense Mechanisms are seen frequently in adults and are common in adolescents. For the user these mechanism alter distress and anxiety caused by reality or other people; while for the beholder, people who use such defenses are seen as socially undesirable, immature, difficult and out of touch. They are considered "immature" defenses and almost always lead to serious problems in a person's ability to cope with the world. These defenses are seen in severe depression, personality disorders, and adolescence. They include:
Projection - attributing one's own unacknowledged feelings to others;
includes severe prejudice,
severe jealousy,
hypervigilance to external danger,
and "injustice collecting".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the more skeptics say some thing is impossible,
the more likely the thing is true ...
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