Thank you for the encouragement John, it is really appreciated.
I have a whole raft of responsibilities and commitments hurtling towards me, so I'm going to be more or less incognito for awhile.
I will keep in touch.
tapestryofsound
For sure, a real serious technical discussion. As one of the commentators said blah blah.
I know my music sounds like I cupped hands over my mouth before I added filtration. Heh. I like that he uses all the sounds and stuff, it makes me cringe good.
Hope the guy having to listen to that stuff was paid good. Hats off he managed just about to not laugh out loud. Guess he was the straight man.
I would hope that we could talk about audio again, without the usual criticism. It gets in the way of getting things done. I do like the LINKS that are posted here, so comrades and critics alike, KEEP POSTING THOSE LINKS!
John I have a question, there is a very outspoken group here that insists that a monotonically decreasing distortion spectra is preferred, that is seconds highest, then thirds, etc. You have always heavily promoted fully complementary design with maximum cancellation of seconds. Any real circuit runs out of head room and thirds will eventually show up. Well in the last few weeks I have seen folks saying the distortion with a certain harmonic structure is preferred, essentially, to no distortion at all.
So my conclusion is audio has no connection for this group to EE as practiced in the aerospace and medical community. Another way of saying this is that the recording and reproduction (in the home) of music is inherently flawed and these effects enhance the experience for a large portion of the audiophile community.
EDIT – To put this in other words, I would think the two signals that the recording engineer created are due the respect of being passed on with maximum fidelity. This is a job for EE as is practiced in the rest of most diciplines.
So my conclusion is audio has no connection for this group to EE as practiced in the aerospace and medical community. Another way of saying this is that the recording and reproduction (in the home) of music is inherently flawed and these effects enhance the experience for a large portion of the audiophile community.
EDIT – To put this in other words, I would think the two signals that the recording engineer created are due the respect of being passed on with maximum fidelity. This is a job for EE as is practiced in the rest of most diciplines.
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But then John, Charles and Nelson all use not only fully complementary (NP), but fully differential (NNPP) topology in their top of the line products.
The blowtorch is a perfect example.
And I presume it has much lower H2 than H3 ?
These products get top recommendation; so maybe there is still some hope.
😉
Patrick
The blowtorch is a perfect example.
And I presume it has much lower H2 than H3 ?
These products get top recommendation; so maybe there is still some hope.
😉
Patrick
Some people like 2'nd harmonic. I do not deliberately add 2'nd harmonic distortion, but my JC-1 power amp has 2'nd harmonic as its primary distortion at normal listening levels. This is NOT deliberate, but because of the dissimilar output conductances of the driver mosfets, IRF610, IRFP610 (Fairchild). My latest amp the JC-1+ will have cascoded mosfets and this should remove the 2'nd harmonic. Will it sound better because of this? I doubt it, but it will MEASURE a lot better at low levels. I personally do not consider even order harmonics much of a sonic problem, unless they are too plentiful, but not really necessary. I just worry about higher ODD ORDER HARMONICS, like 5,7,9 for the most part. IF you have distortion, it has to be 3'rd, because 2'nd can be cancelled out by Class A push-pull operation. Sometimes you see only 2'nd harmonic from a single tube, for example, and it is so low that it is not important, so push-pull operation for some vacuum tube designs might not be necessary, but it is certainly necessary for fet or bipolar designs.
What's wrong with buying and using and praising what you like most, even if it is "distorted"?
The subjective review magazines went ape sh1at over Q0L a few years back (one representative link), praising it to the sky and stage-whispering that "I immediately purchased the review unit" etc. Yet Q0L proudly proclaimed that it was a certain well-conceived and well-engineered distortion of the original signal, involving the Golden Ratio (1+sqrt(5))/2.
What's wrong with buying that and liking it?
The subjective review magazines went ape sh1at over Q0L a few years back (one representative link), praising it to the sky and stage-whispering that "I immediately purchased the review unit" etc. Yet Q0L proudly proclaimed that it was a certain well-conceived and well-engineered distortion of the original signal, involving the Golden Ratio (1+sqrt(5))/2.
What's wrong with buying that and liking it?
John, I'm more concerned with the no distortion signal path being considered inferior.
Time for some comic relief (you did say you like links) HiFiMan Shangri-La Headphones Amplifier System
Nothing at all, just say it like it is. I will farkle your signal for less than $4000 any day.
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Ain't nothing wrong with buying what you like! It's just clear that in terms of ownership preferences, there is no "universal" preference. Acknowledging the likes of Olive, et al., that people prefer lower distortion (but I forgot if that's from gross distortion to little distortion or from little distortion to vanishingly small distortion).
So take this all for what little it's worth.
Fully complementary has a pretty looking circuit topology and appeals to our desire for symmetry. And we certainly have plenty of examples of competent designs using it as core principle.
So take this all for what little it's worth.
Fully complementary has a pretty looking circuit topology and appeals to our desire for symmetry. And we certainly have plenty of examples of competent designs using it as core principle.
Scott,
Seems to me that having very low level low order HD in, say, a power amp mainly serves to help compensate for other deficiencies in the reproduction chain, not for lack of careful mixing and mastering. The HD doesn't produce more accurate sound, but it may sound better, all things considered.
Seems to me that having very low level low order HD in, say, a power amp mainly serves to help compensate for other deficiencies in the reproduction chain, not for lack of careful mixing and mastering. The HD doesn't produce more accurate sound, but it may sound better, all things considered.
Seems to me harmonic distortion would be ok if we listened to harmonic music, mostly we don't, so it follows mostly it isn't
That's something to explore. I admire your energy on the DAC project even though it has no relevance to my main listening experience. I remain mainly all analog LP to speakers as simple as possible just keeping it fun and as much away from "work" as possible. Though for me there is no more work.
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