Well, if my preference is for more perceived realism to the playback illusion, I consider that the goal - irrespective of the terms used to describe it (which can often shackle one's thinking)
Yes, agree completely
Mostly, ideals are not possible to achieve in life & I would suggest in audio playback systems, also
We are also dealing with an art form in the recording of music - it's not a slavish recording of the sounds of the performance - all aspects of the sound are most likely manipulated as part of this art form so like all art forms we are not being served raw reality but a more palatable & hopefully more meaningful version/interpretation.
Hmmm, that seems a very restricted set of conclusions - maybe if I gave you a link you might find other possibilities?
Are Our Preferences Different in Audio? | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
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Well, I would suggest that what emerges into consciousness is the result of the evaluation/analyses that has happened subconsciously (in the auditory processing centers & other higher functioning areas)
Yes, others have said the same but AFAIR few if any have actually stated what I misinterpreted/misunderstood - just simply made that accusation & disengaged from the dialogue.
Nobody finds any problem with the so called "accurate reproduction"?
I feel the accepted norm to justify accuracy in audio amplifiers is way outdated. Nobody I know of has the ability to directly perceive audio in the form of elecrical signal.
Due to the known issues of tranducer and air induced distorton, accuracy description of amplifiers exclusively on electrical standards is downright misleading, no longer holds water, leads to incorrect assumptions and could be considered fraudulent.
Describing an amplifier performing in a system exhibiting lower distortion measured at listening position as more accurate makes better sense.
I feel the accepted norm to justify accuracy in audio amplifiers is way outdated. Nobody I know of has the ability to directly perceive audio in the form of elecrical signal.
Due to the known issues of tranducer and air induced distorton, accuracy description of amplifiers exclusively on electrical standards is downright misleading, no longer holds water, leads to incorrect assumptions and could be considered fraudulent.
Describing an amplifier performing in a system exhibiting lower distortion measured at listening position as more accurate makes better sense.
I think they may get frustrated. You are obviously a very quick intelligent guy, I wonder (I'm trying to be helpful) if sometimes you are a bit too quick when it comes to reading and interpreting what people have written. Personally I often have to read things a few times to hopefully understand what's being said. This thread tests my understanding, and most of the time I stay out of it! But it's fun here, it's the lounge......chill
Yea, I have misunderstood in the past from too quick a reading but if I pick it up on re-reading I try to correct my mistake.I think they may get frustrated. You are obviously a very quick intelligent guy, I wonder (I'm trying to be helpful) if sometimes you are a bit too quick when it comes to reading and interpreting what people have written. Personally I often have to read things a few times to hopefully understand what's being said. This thread tests my understanding, and most of the time I stay out of it! But it's fun here, it's the lounge......chill
This section should be called "The kitchen" as i find that is often where the most interesting discussions & chilling happen at a party
I think they may get frustrated. You are obviously a very quick intelligent guy, I wonder (I'm trying to be helpful) if sometimes you are a bit too quick when it comes to reading and interpreting what people have written. Personally I often have to read things a few times to hopefully understand what's being said. This thread tests my understanding, and most of the time I stay out of it! But it's fun here, it's the lounge......chill
Please stop feeding the trolls, honestly. And don't confuse ostensible intelligence from genuine. Or have a read up on the "Gish Gallop". There's a reason any number of us got frustrated.
Morin the 9th: go on, I thought it was that we didn't use enough slew rate to have full power bandwidth out into ADSL communication frequencies? Get your stories straight, man!
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As I mentioned before, KSTR outlined his method & it seems as if it should be one of the most powerful - subtracting the input signal from the output signal & analyzing the reside - after all what we are perceiving is in the signal somewhere - it's just a matter of uncovering it.
But this apparently well-done differential testing takes a lot of care & thought Is there more to Audio Measurements?
As has been observed, much of what we might listen to is not an illusion at all, if it was not live or acoustic in nature.
Agreed. But why is it considered equally not beneficial to leave some apropriate distortion to partially offset transducer and air induced distortion? Failed attempts on all counts?
Yes, it's often a studio created art form using audio as the palette but it still uses manipulation techniques to create an auditory illusion as deemed satisfactory by the recording engineer & producer. The same happens with live recordings too - seldom are they raw, un-manipulated by the recording engineer.
The illusion is an illusion of a realistic/believeable soundscape (not necessarily a real event) usually based on psychoacoustic techniques understood & known to work i.e in all of us our auditory perception perceives certain sonic cues in the same way.
It's not that much different (in general terms) from what we see in video/tv playback - the images are not all created from actual recordings of events - blue screen is often used, CGI too (or whatever the modern techniques are). These techniques are evaluated as a better illusion by our visual perception mechanism as they have ticked more of the characteristics that our visual perception has internally stored as models of the behavior of real world objects.
Similarly, the various video playback systems have their own qualities as regards how well they render the digital signal into a realistic video stream - for instance on LCD screens some fast moving images can produce display motion blur or a black background appears as banded (color banding), etc
Hi Robert,
-Chris
A good many of us are well beyond power supply issues. Something like that is well known, it's not a secret anymore. So don't treat us like children at design camp.
A second ago it was about power supplies. It all matters, but you are trying to lead with two arguments while declaring one as all important.
-Chris
Kindly read what was posted before making a hasty answer.
Hasty answer coming .....
I did read what you posted & my understanding of it was that you felt measurements at amplifier output & declaring accuracy was bordering on fraudulent - that speaker & air distortions (including speaker interaction with the amplifier) should be taken into account & the measured soundfield at the listeners position should be the criteria. Is my summary correct?
I agree with the fact that what hits the ears are the air vibrations created electro-mechanically by the speakers & the upstream electronics (I don't think air distortion has any real bearing). I agree that these air vibrations are what is turned into nerve impulses in the auditory system & give rise to our auditory perception.
No disagreement with you so far
All I was saying is that IMO, a more sensitive/accurate measurement, using real music as test signal would seem to be a powerful method to reveal the "accuracy" or otherwise of the amplifier in isolation but requires careful setup & thought.
I believe there is more to discover about amplifier accuracy & more to be discovered about the accuracy of different electrical devices in the replay chain when handling dynamic music signals (before we even get to the speaker transducer).
Btw, I also agree with you about the importance of the stability of the power supply & leading edge or attack stage of sounds.
Maybe, this explains my post better?
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