John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II

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brianco

brianco

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Joined 2005
Soundminded said:
It seems to me "fashion statement" is the best descriptor I can think of to define what this and other high end audio is about. Performance art seems not merely far fetched but entirely inappropriate. So far I have yet to see any piece of high end audio equipment justify itself by some unique engineering principle that warrants its prestige. (For example I read most of Passes' paper and found it seriously flawed like Cheever's but I'm not even going to waste my time discussing it, it seems too trivial to bother with.) What I've tried to glean from JC's postings is whether or not there is a coherent engineering concept embodied in his approach that justifies his products' high prices or explains his claimed superiority that is backed up by something more concrete than testimonials. He says he will not publish the schematic which I understand and accept but as far as I can tell, the only thing that drove the design is an approach that says I tried the kind of things I like, I like this best, so it must be best, and you can take my word for it and buy it if you like it too and can afford it or ignore it. I'm sure he has magazine articles reviewing his products with stunning accolades just like many of them do. I once chided Peter Breunniger on another board before he left Stereophile Magazine for TAS about all of those articles proclaiming "the greatest speaker in the world of the month." IMO that's how all of them are. As the new ones come along, the old ones fall by the wayside like so much used junk, yesterday's whiz-bang world beater having been consigned by this niche market to obsolete in a realm of technology that when seen clearly in perspective never seems to go anywhere. It's a point of view those who make money in this market don't ever want to hear and would like to suppress if they can, especially when it comes from someone with training. But if you talk to people who install professional (commercial) sound systems for a living where cost is not often the only major consideration, most of them will just shake their heads and laugh about it.
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Golly, you do seem to be a cynic - but, fortunately, you have the answer to all our problems! JC, NP et al be prepared to go straight to oblivion when this approach hits the market at a mere $299.99.:D Carefully used Blowtorch anyone....first $75.00 offered gets it.:rolleyes:
 
john curl

john curl

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Joined 2003
If you are so smart, Steve, why aren't you rich! Of course, the same thing could be said about me. By the way, your wire website is very nicely done, and the credit card possibility is a very good touch. I could envy a website to sell my stuff, done up at that level. The problem is: What you have to sell. Have come to realize that in order to MAKE a quality cable with good connectors, proper packaging, and promotion, that you cannot just give them away to your friends? Several hundred dollars for just a pair of connecting cables! Wow, even I could do it cheaper!
 
jacco vermeulen

jacco vermeulen

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Joined 2004
Soundminded said:
talking about the entire preamp.
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Okidoki, locate me one that can do a 1-on-1 identical case for $100 ex taxes each, i'll take 100 minimum, 10% fee.
Just the case, nothing inside.
 

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simon7000

Member
Joined 2008
Soundminded said:
Professional sound system contractors supply equipment that must offer top level performance, reliability, servicability, availability and good value for money. This is why they stick with names like Crown, QSC, and JBL. When Bryston bids a job, you can be sure they take a sharp pencil and will compete head to head against the others. They know that when they bid to professional sound engineers, they're in a market that cannot be easily fooled. Commercial amplifiers are often just minor variants or essentially identical to what the same manufacturers offer audiophiles. The packaging may be slightly different so that audiophiles who see them won't feel they were cheated by what they bought at high end salons for their own use. BTW, I am not in that business in case you are guessing although there are times when I'm on projects where these systems are parts of a larger project. I have dealt on occasion with the A/V consultants, system integrators, and equipment vendors.
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Gee,

And I though I just bought the cheapest products that will do what is required of them. A bit of knowledge is required to be able to make accurate decisions based on what the actual product requirements are and how the manufacturer derives their specifications.

I am unaware of any major commercial amplifier maker still participating in audiophile markets. Do you really think the sales people want to spend a day or more to sell one piece, when they can answer a few phone calls and send me a couple of pallets of them?

The major manufacturers offer reliability and low costs. I have had three different amplifier manufacturers send people to my job site to either repair manufacturing issues or be sure the product worked in a full scale system. The normal set aside for warranty repair for pro gear is 5%. So including airfare and hotel, they still come out way ahead.

As to cost of equipment all of the manufacturers I know of sell below the price sheet end column for various reasons. This can be 20% or more. That often puts their products below the smaller folks actual costs.


Steve,

The curves show ground contamination resulting in additional distortion. You are correct in this case it is self generated, in others it is external noise, usually caused by AM transmitters. But I do not have a neat clean example of that easily available. However it really is a problem.


John,

I am shocked and appalled that there is actually real discussion of the Blowtorch on this thread! Even worse other relevant technical information! Please see that it doesn't happen again! :)


ES
 
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simon7000

Member
Joined 2008
PMA said:
Yes, low cost. Not necessarily reliability, and usually no special sound quality.

Low cost, 'green' and mass production seem to be appreciated by most.
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Pavel,

I sent one loudspeaker manufacturer a bill for warranty repair of their loudspeakers. It was $180,000.00! It took a bit but they paid it. So at the pro end reliability is cost effective.

Then there was the consumer manufacturer who decided to try pro audio. The would only pay $15.00 for a repair to their loudspeaker as that is what they figured it cost them if you sent it back to them they way consumers do. For some strange reason they have not enjoyed much acceptance among pros!

The crucial concept of quality control is not that you make perfect products but you make them as good as your customer expects. That way you do not spend money on quality control that is not appreciated. I may use 1000 amplifiers for five customers, a single failure means 20% of my customers are unhappy. Yet a consumer manufacturer could produce 10 bad units and still have 99% satisfaction!

ES
 
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Soundminded

Member
Joined 2008
jacco vermeulen said:
Okidoki, locate me one that can do a 1-on-1 identical case for $100 ex taxes each, i'll take 100 minimum, 10% fee.
Just the case, nothing inside.
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Ever hear of reverse engineering, amortization, or lowering cost per unit through mass production. Around 2000, a 42" Phillips plasma TV cost about
$15,000. Today, Costco is clearing the racks of 47" Panasonic plasmas for about $700. They'll go cheaper than that when it's time to clear out the last ones off the shelves to make way for the new $2000 3D LCD versions. In fact the $700 plasmas will outperform and outlast the old 42" Phllips. Now it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if a factory thought there'd be a nice profit in selling a super high end audio preamp, they could easily acquire the one they want to copy, tear it down to the last little screw and rivet, and duplicate it so that you wouldn't be able to tell the copy apart from the original. They do it with drugs. They can take DNA apart down to the last atom. An audio preamp is hardly a challenge. There's just no money in it. Its limited market is based on what is perceived as a luxury brand cache', not on intrinsic value. BTW, the best components such as semiconductors can often be purchased as military spec types which are culled from ordinary commercial and industrial grade equivalents. When they become obsolete, the government might sell them in quantity cheaply. High tech that isn't really high tech anymore has been comoditized. That means cheap and mass produced.

So is the circuit design of the Blowtorch preamp kept a secret by its developer because there is so much in it...or so little to it? He's not telling.
 
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