Perhaps Bill was being generous in offering 2 possible explanations. Expectation bias remains an entirely plausible explanation for that scenario.
Two different statements, sub-LSB resolution without correlation is a fact. You can run the numerical simulations yourself. You keep stating the performance of processes that might or might not work, as George plotted only two of them were valid the others are just plain wrong. In any situation there is a dither process that works.
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You got me thinking about it some more. Of course, it's just a result of adding, say, a 24-bit number representing the signal with another 24-bit number representing dither which happens to be all zeros below bit 16, for example. Not the same as adding two 16-bit numbers, which would be the case if dither were added after truncation.
There may be arguments that nobody could hear any difference, and other arguments that some people probably could under some circumstances. No progress there, most likely.
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was just replicating George's work, as expected my results are identical.
I think it becomes obvious when you realize that the damage has been done to the noise floor already from truncation, adding dither after the fact only "obliterates" (decorrelates?) the noise below the noise floor of that particular dither. The spectral lines above the dithered noise are the same as before dither was applied, as you would expect from a signal, which it is now.
Cheers
Alan
I think it becomes obvious when you realize that the damage has been done to the noise floor already from truncation, adding dither after the fact only "obliterates" (decorrelates?) the noise below the noise floor of that particular dither. The spectral lines above the dithered noise are the same as before dither was applied, as you would expect from a signal, which it is now.
Cheers
Alan
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Are you saying that SH and KG are not legitimate (debatable) authorities on the facts of the argument?
No, the point is they should be able to make the argument from logic/evidence rather than try to convince by their name alone. Sometimes these get confused, when someone gains some fame on the former, and then gets lazy and relies solely on the latter.
It's not so pretty when he or she gets caught out overstepping their bounds rather than staying disciplined to logic/evidence.
It's not so pretty when he or she gets caught out overstepping their bounds rather than staying disciplined to logic/evidence.
How many "10's" on mastering release reviews for how may years will convince you beyond "name" alone? Or do you only trust T&M?
BTW to call KG "lazy" is just so vastly off the mark it defies credulity. Maybe you really should just stick to your LSB's and dither.
BTW to call KG "lazy" is just so vastly off the mark it defies credulity. Maybe you really should just stick to your LSB's and dither.
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Holy cow, you are taking this WAY too personally.
I spoke generally, as to highlight the danger of the logical fallacy known as "appeal to authority". I am not calling anyone lazy. Calm down. I have to deal with appeals to authority regularly, and the challenge is always to distill down that which has merit (content) versus what is being said by someone who has spectacular bona fides. Oftentimes those go together, but even the brightest minds aren't infallible. Okay?
(Never mind the egos...)
So, no, name alone doesn't do it. Especially when someone drops name to go "I told you so."
I spoke generally, as to highlight the danger of the logical fallacy known as "appeal to authority". I am not calling anyone lazy. Calm down. I have to deal with appeals to authority regularly, and the challenge is always to distill down that which has merit (content) versus what is being said by someone who has spectacular bona fides. Oftentimes those go together, but even the brightest minds aren't infallible. Okay?
(Never mind the egos...)
So, no, name alone doesn't do it. Especially when someone drops name to go "I told you so."
The biggest problem in creating the reality illusion for acoustic music is the room. Most domestic rooms are not large enough. So they need more channels, eq, and room treatment.
Thank you Alan. What software did you use?
You are talking about the ‘truncate first then dither’, yes?
I agree. And I think that jcx words find a place here:
I think that for the ‘truncate first then dither’ case, dithering only masks the part of the (correlated with the signal) quantization noise which lies below the dither noise peak level.
While for the ‘dither first then truncate’ case, dithering effectively reduces the correlation of the quantisation noise with the signal at least to the extend that the quantisation noise spectra components are reduced to a level at and below the peak level of the dither noise.
The Ozone Dithering Guide emphasizes the necessity of using the ‘dither first, then truncate’ procedure when dithering and truncation are discrete processes. See page 27 “Rule 4” and the subsequent step by step instructions for a few apps (hosts) to which Ozone is a plug-in. (pages 28-38)
George
Attachments
OK, I got it now. And I see Mark and JCX make essentially the same point, thanks guys.
Jan
No, I meant that no one is an authority on what others can and can't hear. I should have made that clear.
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Flipping the other way. If SH and KG are right then you cannot do a digital rip of a vinyl record without losing noticable fidelity. This conjecture is at least more easily testable without having access to a (priceless) master tape.
(Today am listening to some 1939/1940 recordings of Rachmaninov playing his piano concertos. It's a good time to be a music lover)
(Today am listening to some 1939/1940 recordings of Rachmaninov playing his piano concertos. It's a good time to be a music lover)
Review of the benchmark DAC 3 Benchmark DAC3 HGC D/A preamplifier-headphone amplifier | Stereophile.com An interesting admission from the reviewer if you read it....
George, I used Wavelab 9.0
as there is no "Internal" anymore I used the Izotope plug. TPDF flat
Alan
as there is no "Internal" anymore I used the Izotope plug. TPDF flat
Alan
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