Hmmmm.... Curious, or just digging for something to feed your very own prejudice against opamps?
The right questions to answer before anything else are:
a) Do the Oppo and the Benchmark really do sound different, and assuming so,
b) Does the Benchmark really sound better?
If you prefer to skip the answers to these essential questions and blindly trust what self appointed golden ears are telling you, then at least don't be surprised you are ignored by any serious engineer.
yes, I know. But I am not evaluating the music, or performance.... just the equipment. Set all mixing controls to no EQ.. flat etc. see what the raw electronics does. But not as a single piece of gear... the way we test now. Put multi-tone thru one item and its output into the next connected gear and so on and so forth.
I am curious as it might help close the gap between testing gear in isolation and listening to the whole system. Multi-tones will give a more realistic level of all the distortion we are being exposed to.
THx-RNMarsh
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from Everything Audio Network: Audiophile DAC Review!Benchmark DAC3-HGCD/A, Preamplifier, HP Amp
Four balanced outputs are summed in balanced low-impedance I/V converters to form each of the two balanced output channels. National Semiconductor LME49860 op-amps (which can easily handle low impedance loads) are used throughout the audio path. An Alps motorized gain control is used to control the volume.
Cheers
Alan
Four balanced outputs are summed in balanced low-impedance I/V converters to form each of the two balanced output channels. National Semiconductor LME49860 op-amps (which can easily handle low impedance loads) are used throughout the audio path. An Alps motorized gain control is used to control the volume.
Cheers
Alan
Those pesky 8-legs strike again! The LME49860 is just the 44V validated LME49720. Pretty much exactly the datasheet build for the ESS chipset.
Maybe they actually have +/-22V rails. That would enable higher output and higher SNR. Not that you could hear it.
Waly, you might be a 'serious engineer', and you are a prime example of why I am so successful in audio design. I keep an 'open mind', generally ignore double blind testing, and go with my instincts, along with my 50 years of analog design experience, and I do accept a consensus of listening opinions by myself and others to arrive at audio solutions.
Now, I am not a digital designer, although 50 years ago I was involved in the design of digitally sourced motor drives and switching power supplies (discrete) for the military. And 49 years ago I first listened to a 12bit-50KHz AD-DA, A-B comparison sourced by an Ampex tube based MR-70 analog recorder, (probably the best analog audio machine that Ampex ever made), and I was then disappointed by the comparison, and have hoped to hear significantly better over the next 49 years, yet analog still holds sway with me, even today. Now, realizing that digital is almost all there is, I am hoping to get better digital playback, if it can finally be satisfactory to my ears. Richard Marsh and Markw4 apparently have put their money up to get the best they can afford, or at least, justify. They apparently have done better than the OPPO105 that I now use, so I am interested in WHY? I appreciate any serious listening feedback, what I don't appreciate is criticism by 'serious engineers' that I am not supposed to listen to fellow engineers (or whatever). I don't need this,
and it gets in the way of useful conversation here.
Now, I have found that OPPO has released the UDP-205, to succeed the 105. Now I will look into what they do internally, and how it compares with the Benchmark 203. Already, I have learned new info on this thread, and then going out on the internet with the key words learned here.
Now, I am not a digital designer, although 50 years ago I was involved in the design of digitally sourced motor drives and switching power supplies (discrete) for the military. And 49 years ago I first listened to a 12bit-50KHz AD-DA, A-B comparison sourced by an Ampex tube based MR-70 analog recorder, (probably the best analog audio machine that Ampex ever made), and I was then disappointed by the comparison, and have hoped to hear significantly better over the next 49 years, yet analog still holds sway with me, even today. Now, realizing that digital is almost all there is, I am hoping to get better digital playback, if it can finally be satisfactory to my ears. Richard Marsh and Markw4 apparently have put their money up to get the best they can afford, or at least, justify. They apparently have done better than the OPPO105 that I now use, so I am interested in WHY? I appreciate any serious listening feedback, what I don't appreciate is criticism by 'serious engineers' that I am not supposed to listen to fellow engineers (or whatever). I don't need this,
and it gets in the way of useful conversation here.
Now, I have found that OPPO has released the UDP-205, to succeed the 105. Now I will look into what they do internally, and how it compares with the Benchmark 203. Already, I have learned new info on this thread, and then going out on the internet with the key words learned here.
I thought it was common knowledge that Dr Dre is the most successful audio designer out there? 😛
You read it here folks, the "best" there is (the Benchmark) is littered with LME49860's. The horror, the horror!
Which is really the same op-amp as the LME49720 which is the same as the LM4562. So pedestrian, how could they use such a bourgeois op-amp and get such great reviews? 😛
I don't consider myself a golden ear, self-appointed or otherwise. In fact I have hearing loss and tinnitus. Does that sound like a golden ear to you? But, I seem to have some kind of brain dsp, or whatever, that can still sort of pick up on fairly low level distortion in whatever my ears can still hear.
And, I happen to believe in good, serious engineering, including measuring things. Regarding DAC-3 measurements, there are quite of few performance graphs in the manual if you have any interest in taking a look: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0321/7609/files/DAC3_Series_Manual_Rev_B.pdf?9982830537634228604
Regarding the comments of some other people about the op-amps it uses, I guess their engineer knows how to use them. And how to layout a circuit, and use a suitable power supply, and so on.
JC, Regarding your Oppo and your interest in DAC-3 hardware, it's not all hardware. There is DSP filtering going on that has been changed and improved from previous Benchmark DAC models. Using the same hardware parts can probably only get you so far.
Okay, now that I gave everybody reason to come back at me, have fun if you want.
Eh, no, I'll poke at the "exceptional" nature of hearing any difference between the different Benchmarks.
I'll definitely poke at John Curl's inability to realize that opamps from 1970 are inferior to modern ones. And all the other flowery language that doesn't realize any sort of performance advantage.
I'll definitely poke at John Curl's inability to realize that opamps from 1970 are inferior to modern ones. And all the other flowery language that doesn't realize any sort of performance advantage.
for those that may be interested in Demian's files from earlier (tri tone and tri tone with known harmonics), I have posted them on my website for perusal and/or usage.
Demian Tri Band files
right click to download
Cheers
Alan
Demian Tri Band files
right click to download
Cheers
Alan
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That's ok, but then why complaining about:
They have every right to ignore your concerns, as much as you have the right to ignore 'serious engineers' advice.
Which? the schematic porn, the view from my front deck or the Wedding pictures (I'd get killed if I ever took them down, getting close to 20 years ago now, has the web been here that long?!?!)
Cheers
Alan
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