Should JC present a BOM for the Orion ? I do not nead that. He is the designer and not the salesman. OK, he is very enthusiastic about what he is doing there but will the potential buyer make the bying decission based on what John is saying here ? I whould say rather not. I do not know what people designed my car.
My new phono stage uses about 100 Toshiba jfets, 50 Nch, 50 pch. That is just a start.
The remote controlled input loading pot costs at least $500, each precision resistor costs about $10, there are at least 80. The caps cost only about $10 each, unless we switch over to Teflon, then they will cost $20 or so, maybe 10. Then, about 50-100 more parts, including pots, input transformers ($300), T0-5 relays (at least 20 at $15 ea)
Need I go on? The case weighs a lot, I have no idea what it costs, maybe $5,000.
The remote controlled input loading pot costs at least $500, each precision resistor costs about $10, there are at least 80. The caps cost only about $10 each, unless we switch over to Teflon, then they will cost $20 or so, maybe 10. Then, about 50-100 more parts, including pots, input transformers ($300), T0-5 relays (at least 20 at $15 ea)
Need I go on? The case weighs a lot, I have no idea what it costs, maybe $5,000.
Somewhere I saw a review of a Nagra preamp built around three 6AT7s. The review claimed it to be the best preamp in the world. Cost to buy, $10,000. Cost to build, couldn't be more than two or three hundred dollars tops (would have been about $100 in 1965.) Too bad the engineer who designed it didn't think about heat. There wasn't a single ventillation opening anywhere to be seen in the small box it was in. What a preamp it must have been...during its brief life expectancy. Mister Phelps, this preamp will self destruct in five, four, three, two, one second. Pfffff.
You know, some people are 'armchair critics', and have never designed anything in their life. They know not the cost of things, or how to save money in making an economical product. I have worked with everyone here to make an economical product, that is, a phono preamp that should solve all of Soundmind's needs, if he chose to make it.
Now, I think we should look forward to make a more versatile product with a 2 stage design. It could compare to the JC-3 phono preamp, just released, and at significantly reduced cost, mostly because most here could avoid a pretty box, heavy shielding, and the usual retail mark-up, which is necessary in commercial audio retail.
Now, I think we should look forward to make a more versatile product with a 2 stage design. It could compare to the JC-3 phono preamp, just released, and at significantly reduced cost, mostly because most here could avoid a pretty box, heavy shielding, and the usual retail mark-up, which is necessary in commercial audio retail.
What Nagra preamp is that? I'm not aware of any Nagra tube preamps which have no ventilation or are based on 6AT7 tubes.
se
John, don't you think 100 jfets is overdoing it just a little? Couldn't you cut it down to say 50? How about saving a few for the next stage. 🙂
I don't think it was this one.
Nagra PL-L preamplifier | Stereophile.com
This had two 12AX7As and one 12AT7. Besides, it only cost $6000. The one I'm talking about was the next generation or two "world's best" preamp. But that was several years ago. By now there must be an even better one out there. There seems to be a few races going on at once. Best preamp, most expensive preamp, best phono preamp, most expensive phono preamp. So what will John do for an encore after 100 jfets? 200 jfets? 500 jfets? Let's make it an even thousand just to use nice round numbers. Price should be around $250,000 to $500,000. After all, with all those zisters, it will need a much bigger box.
No, that is what it takes to meet the spec. I could use even more expensive jfets at the input, for 3dB lower noise. What do you say to 2 X J73's and 2 X K146's for the input? I could use J72's and K147's for the second stages, and J74's and K170's all matched for everything else. Do you have ANY IDEA what that would cost on the open market? Why don't you ask somebody? Jam, care to fill him in? Anyone?
Input transformers?????
We're not talking power supply transformers but input transformers? In the signal path? At a few mv?
Well, you were pretty harsh on Nagra, so I think it would behoove you to either come up with the preamp you were talking about or withdraw your remarks.
se
So you're saying that it will cost as much to make one phono preamp stage as it costs to make about twenty 55" 3D flat screen TV sets combined. Does NASA know about this? They could probably use a few good men right about now.
TV's are cheap to buy, these days. Maybe you can find a cheap sports car that runs as fast as anything in the world and costs less than $10,000? Last time I looked, a Bugatti costs $1 MILLION or so.
55 inch 3D flat screen TV's aren't made in batches of twenty. They're made in lots of thousands. They're also made of lots of cheap injection molded plastic and assembled by people making less than a dollar an hour.
se
Well, then maybe, direct comparison is not possible. We hope to pay our people a living wage in the USA.
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