I think it is not the vinyl that makes it better. It is the technology behind the cd that makes them worse.
I think you missed my point. Most records cut since the early 1980's were processed through a digital groove computer. A device that buffers 1/4 turn worth of audio in a digital buffer as it calculated the optimum (minimum) spacing between grooves.
I find it fascinating that a digital recording can capture the essence of a vinyl playback (cf Michael Fremer).
I think a relevant question would be if you could detect degradation of the turntable audio after processing through a decent AD/DA chain. To quote: "Condemnation without examination is prejudice".
Wrong ... and right ...
Digital recordings are capable of manifesting the highest levels of quality, and would have no trouble knocking normal analogue on the head during replay if everything is done right. However, most times not everything is 'right' - and hence some disappointment is felt ...
Where you're "right" is that the industry has taken on board the myth that if one punches in the right numbers - adds the parts with 'correct' spec's - then perfect reproduction will pop out the other end - and the reality is normally far from that. Sloppiness in implementation and optimisation of a digital playback chain will always 'reward' you with lacklustre, ho-hum, or edgy sound - and there are no magic bullets to just make the bad stuff go way, without having to think about it ...
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In 1980, I built a 30 ips analog reproducer WITH AN ANALOG PREVIEW HEAD, for Mobile Fidelity. Most serious, hi end companies use what is sonically best, even though the commercial ones may not. Why be cynical about vinyl? I generally listen to older pressings, that have been cheap and available for many years. Most of them clean up really well.
Since I made the microphone electronics for both Crystal Clear (direct disc) , and Wilson Audio (30ips analog tape to cutter), I can tell you that NO IC's were in the path as far as we could take it. No digital either.
Since I made the microphone electronics for both Crystal Clear (direct disc) , and Wilson Audio (30ips analog tape to cutter), I can tell you that NO IC's were in the path as far as we could take it. No digital either.
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I was just trying to give the reasoning behind other people's observation. If some people with cost no object systems prefer vynil, who am I to say that it is just because the designers of digital systems cannot do their job right enough.
I mentioned in a different thread that I've done that, and I'm sure others have, too. I've tried hi res and 16/44 outputs. Comparisons double blind and level matched. The only thing to be careful about is to do the input at 24 bit and lower level than usual, irrespective of what you do with the output format: non-musical artifacts (ticks, pops) can clip things if you set digital 0dB input at nominal analog output or even 10dB above it. That WILL be audible!
Easy experiment to do, but the ears-only part will horribly offend the audio ayatollahs who have no need to concern themselves with the realities of human perception. However, for those who are actually curious and open-minded, this is a useful exercise.
If you rip this to a file, you can go back and take out the ticks and pops very effectively and get the best possible out of analog.
No it isn't. You are conflating (or trying to get us to conflate) two quite different things.a.wayne said:
If you don't like electronic error correction, try listening to CD without it - I'm not sure it is possible but if it were you would quickly find that it is not so pleasant as the gentle distortion of a 'feedback-free' amplifier. I won't suggest you try listening to CD without ADC and DAC as that would be silly!
CD may sound unnatural to some people because it lacks the mono bass, highish noise floor and relatively high amounts of low-order distortion of LP. I'm sure a little post-processing could add these to CD - a passive circuit at line level could achieve quite a lot. Maybe we should start a little competition for the simplest passive circuit which can make CD sound like LP? Diodes allowed, but no power supply.
I find a baseball bat efficacious in such situations. Perhaps a cricket bat will do as well for those of you in more benighted lands.
No, did I say that ? I just don´t think this is "a useful exercise".
I simply don´t care what will "will horribly offend the audio ayatollahs"
nor do I care for the "digital ayatollahs" which are more concerned
about what one can discern when switching between A and B under the
conditions of a DBT than about enjoying music.
This evening I will be at the Vienna Musikverein (Brahms symphony).
Being back home after such concerts I quite often prefer vinyl to
digital playback. Will the "useful exercise" SY proposed give an answer
to why this is the case ? I doubt it.
Why always the use of pejoratives to described those who can hear a difference Sy , gets us nowhere , this continuous dogma when its obvious many still enjoy the format and you are not the only one doing the comparisons and 30+ yrs later nail dragging is still with us , think about that ..
When you demonstrate that you do, rather than just asserting it, we can have an intelligent conversation.
Longevity of superstition does not lend it credence.
Im not saying i do or don't , I'm pointing out one requires miles of electronic processing before there's music , analog is a much simpler process, if my speakers are moved a 1/4 of an inch the change in sound is obvious , different cd players sound different , transports , DAC's, etc ..
24/192 has the top end clarity of good analog , it does lack the dynamic punch of it , this continuos dogma regarding measurements gets us nowhere , anyone out of their audio pampers know there are differences between , caps. Tubes, SS, discrete , IC's , et al ...
If there's some best sounds specs , then spill the beans ....
If you can point me to some reliable ears-only level-matched experimental results that show audibility of a 16/44 DAC/ADC (one designed by engineers to have flat frequency response!) inserted in a vinyl-based analog stream, I'd appreciate it.
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