Jean Michel on LeCleac'h horns

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#862
FWIW in my post I wasnt passing comment on the quality of the 50hz bass horn, just saying it doesnt go low enough for me on its own and would turn the exercise into a 5-way...so given the choice between the two 4-way options I would also go with the Onken over what Martin currently has set up. I gave up on a bass horn simply due to size constraints - even though its no bigger than my 160hz horn it would mean a 5 way.

Yuyen did you consider the Bottlehead 45's? I used to dig my S.E.X amp and wish I still had it. The Magnaquest trannies I upgraded to are worth a recommendation to my ear/memory.
 
#863
Same for my situation, I cannot fit big bass horns into my room. Martin's bass horn didn't go down to 50hz. I would guess maybe 70hz (maybe even higher?) or so.. Didn't go down low enough for my tastes. I would like to stick to a 4way setup so from trolling through the internet, I ended up deciding between the onken, back loaded horn or simple box with circle bass port. I went with the onken 🙂

Cheers for the recommendation screenchaos, I will look into that Intact Audio gear.

Never noticed the Bottleahead 45's Bev. I was hoping to build my own amps from stratch with the components I want. Hope this will save me some money in the long run (as if I buy a kit, I will probably end up ripping all the stock parts out and changing them for other bits sooner or later). Although $800US for a 45 KIT is quite cheap hey.. hrmmm
 
#864
Yes, I totally agree about the mid bass horn not going low enough to use without something to fill in below it.
That's why I use a pair of tapped horns (up to ~60Hz), mid bass horns to ~200, the 160Hz LeCleach to ~1k, etc.

Yes, five-way!
That's what I was talking about;
It keeps the same "voice," and you can't hear where any of the crossovers are,
instead of going from horn loading to a direct radiator.
Very clean, can hear timber of individual instruments much better.
e.g. cello, walking bass lines, timpani greatly benefit (IMHO).

But yes, a four-way is simpler--one less pair to build...
 
#865
Sorry for the delay in getting back here...


canever said:
Hi bear,

thank your explanation.
I am lookign to a way to increase the efficiency of the unit because my system is 104dB and to introduce the ribbon tweeters I would like to avoid another amplifier.
Click to expand...

I do not think you will get a real increase in effective sensitivity by horn loading the ribbons... without compression there is not likely to be gain at the higher freqs, only the lower ones (that the ribbon covers). I may be incorrect about this... but the horn/waveguide is not likely to improve the transient response nor is it likely to extend the HF response - it may serve to reduce the extension.

No free lunch.

A small amp to run such a high sensitivity speaker should be easier and simpler to implement. Consider the Pass F5? Properly set up, with good parts it is a great amp. Inexpensive too... meets your specs easily.

_-_-bear


It is not simple and cheap an amplifier with a band over 60-80KHz and 5/6W rms, even if it is true there is nothing below 5KHz (I am planning to cross at 15KHz). I will try with a MOS amplifier.

What I am looking for with the ribbon tweeter is:
the vinils and the new generation of digital programs contains information over the 20KHz, at least till 60-80KHz. If we are able to extract I would like to test 2 effects:

1) transient response should be much better cause a better transient response needs the largest possible band of the system.

2) the beating, used also by the musicians to tune the instrument, and demonstrated also by violinist Tartini, who showed if you play two particular tones you can ear a third tone, below of 2 octaves.

Speaking as we eat, 1) should give more air, less weight, to the lissen, and 2) should give more live to the lissen (with the feeling of ear more vibrations around the main tones).

But I am tryinf to do something with these tweeters, mainly, because I have the tweeters in the loft and before to sell (always for nothing, this is the market) I want to experiment what I said. After these, bye bye.

If somebody has already tried something in this direction will be a pleasure to ear his impressions.

Ciao.
Click to expand...
 
#869
Check it. Busy trying them as 3 ways without the tweeter just EQing +7db @20k on the AH425 horns and ABing on the fly with the DCX, and to tell the truth I'm hard pressed for a preference. Tempting then do do away with the tweeter just for the sake of simplicity.

Overall I'm happy with how they're sounding, still some tweaking of XO to do though. A fair bit different from the Gallos I had before these, kinda like going from 42" LCD to a 120" PJ screen.
 

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#870
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Got my GOTO setup running with temporary bass channel solution (12" vintage coral woofers in sealed box).

Sound is already so amazing even when the mid-low/mid-high/high channels being powered by TA2020 class T amps (have been modified with auricaps and elnas though).

360L onken cabinets should be finished by next week with the 15" altec 416-8a woofers.

In process of planning out 3x 45/2A3 SETs to replace the class T amps. Class T amps to run in summer time and all valve amps for winter time 🙂
 
#871
In my experience, most, not all, and depending somewhat upon the excursion limits of the ribbon as well as the physical size and flare of the "waveguide", you can get maybe 1/2 octave... perhaps more with a bigger waveguide, but then there are interference issues etc that may have negative effects elsewhere in the band, or not.
 
#872
Hello, everyone. I've sent a PM to Jean Michel as well, but I figured I might ask on this thread as well: I cannot seem to get either one of the spreadsheets to work for me. I'm sure its something I've done wrong in setting it up, as I suck at spreadsheets. In fact, I bought Excel just for this purpose, having never used it before.

The problem is likely due to me not knowing what this line (translated by Babelfish) in the "notice" area even means:

"To reduce the file, the sheet is delivered empty of these lines of calculation. To allow the calculation of all the points, it is necessary in the sheet " Horn calculation" to recopy line 34 since the line 35 jusqu' with line 4035."

Yeah- no idea. 🙁
 
#874
It means copy line 34 and paste it into lines 35 through 4035. If you're an excel newbie, that means select line 34 by clicking on the number 34 at the left side of the window (it should be highlighted once selected). Then press ctrl-c (or select edit, copy). Then in the same way select lines 35 through 4035. You can select line 35, then scroll down to 4035, hold down shift and select 4035 to get all the lines. Then paste by pressing ctrl-v or selecting edit, paste. Hope that helps.
 
#877

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#878
Jean-Michel,

Thank you very much. This is extremely helpful.

Now, all I need is a similar chart for an 800Hz horn with a 22mm throat and I'll have enough to complete a long term project to begin a new year. 🙂

Thanks in advance,
John
 
#879
John, if your xover freq is intended to be 800Hz., I'd suggest making the horn larger - a lower cutoff freq - so that you have flat response through the xover region... and that the horn actually reaches the desired freq. If you were already doing that, no problem...

_-_-bear
 
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