Pano, i have to say that you, my friend, are very lucky indeed. I have readed all their articles, and still remained with one BIG question: who the hell is Hepaistos???!!! This man is amazing with his "Super Nemesis" or the "Nemesis Compensee" article series, his modifications for the Kaneda amps and thermall distorsions..Yes, I was there the day we discovered that.
And another question: did you heard a Nemesis amplifier? If yes, did you heard, the Nemesis derivations from Hepaistos?
Thanks in advance
Yes, I was there the day we discovered that.
And another big question, a personall one: where you one of the editors, or staff?
Attachments
I think I've converted it to pdf file. Do you know if there is anything on line that can do the translation. When I searched OCR I think I was getting things that changed file types not that did translations
I was not staff, I was the mascot.
So you where in that pic too?
I'm glad that we have, here, on diy a man who participate at this very good, and reference, if i may say, book for music lovers. I have one word for you guys: RESPECT! It's an honnor for me to speak to you.
I built a similar-ish amp and initially tried using 3 *(2sc5200 plus 2sc1943) by toshiba on one channel. I found that the sound was too treble dominant and lacking bass for me and my fullranges (8"). I then tried one pair per channel and found the sound to be shockingly beautiful. Great bass, sweet treble. The toshibas had grounding issues and will not be quiet at full volume unless the transformer was magnetically shielded away from them and the chassis was grounded to a water pipe (can't use ground socket due to cheap wiring in my Bangkok apartment) I went searching for an upgrade once and purchased two sanken 2sc3264 plus 2sa1295 pairs I tested one of the pairs in place of the toshibas. I found the sound too "solid state" or thin and trebel centric and "cold". It's interesting to note that all grounding and all apparent shielding issues seemed tinned magically "solved" leaving no hum at max volume, even with the chassis open and having the transformer right next to the transistors. I liked the idea of mica plates which the sanken supplier recommended for the transistors to conduct heat with the zinc. and am now using one pair of toshibas per channel (and the mica plates).
Interesting Phil, i found that the 2sc5200/2sa1943 where abit muddy and bright and at complex passages the sound was so aglomerated and fast that i could not understand whats going on on that melody. It was like listening music in a market....
I found that mj21193/21194 has the greatest bass from all till now, equilibrated and warm voice but has fewer hights. I found some 2sta/2stc equvallent to some sanken pairs to have the most ballanced sound signature from all. I think that the perforated emitter technology from STmicroelectronics has something to do with this because the originall Sankens where abit too bright and ss for me too.
I found that mj21193/21194 has the greatest bass from all till now, equilibrated and warm voice but has fewer hights. I found some 2sta/2stc equvallent to some sanken pairs to have the most ballanced sound signature from all. I think that the perforated emitter technology from STmicroelectronics has something to do with this because the originall Sankens where abit too bright and ss for me too.
Hello,
If i remember well my 500 VA EI core was 21-0-21 volt and i did get 24 volt dc to the circuit using a power supply similar to the circuit in the attachment a few pages back where you could see the benefit of the choke. The Lundahl LL2733 with the two coils in parallel will have similar serie resistance as the choke i bought in France so you will get a voltage close to 24 volt if your current will be around 1,5 A.
If you end up with 23 volt the amp will not sound worse.
I would go for something like 120-115-0-115-120 and 24-21-18-0-18-21-24.
If your secundairy voltage is a little to high you can connect the 230 volts to the 240 primary and the output will go down about 5%.
Many times people end up with an output that is not 100%. If it is made to measure you can get it perfect and adding an extra voltage on the sec side will not make it more expensive ( maybe 5$) With the one i got made i had 5 different output voltages. and 4 different input voltages.
Dont forget to ask for a static screen between primary and secundairy windings. You could also ask for a copper foil surrounding the 2 coils ( you see some of the R core having that)
Because the wires carry big current they need to be thicker and will have tendency to move ( depending on how carefully the winding is done) so it could be benificial top ask if they can impregnate it with varnish.
The input stage could have its own transformer. Could be a standard R core because the output voltage will be defined by the regulator. Just take care you have enough voltage drop across the regulator.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s the preferred amps test by Jean Hiraga was done on high efficiency drivers. The Hiraga could be used with a variety of speakers the other ones are more critical to match for sure!
If i remember well my 500 VA EI core was 21-0-21 volt and i did get 24 volt dc to the circuit using a power supply similar to the circuit in the attachment a few pages back where you could see the benefit of the choke. The Lundahl LL2733 with the two coils in parallel will have similar serie resistance as the choke i bought in France so you will get a voltage close to 24 volt if your current will be around 1,5 A.
If you end up with 23 volt the amp will not sound worse.
I would go for something like 120-115-0-115-120 and 24-21-18-0-18-21-24.
If your secundairy voltage is a little to high you can connect the 230 volts to the 240 primary and the output will go down about 5%.
Many times people end up with an output that is not 100%. If it is made to measure you can get it perfect and adding an extra voltage on the sec side will not make it more expensive ( maybe 5$) With the one i got made i had 5 different output voltages. and 4 different input voltages.
Dont forget to ask for a static screen between primary and secundairy windings. You could also ask for a copper foil surrounding the 2 coils ( you see some of the R core having that)
Because the wires carry big current they need to be thicker and will have tendency to move ( depending on how carefully the winding is done) so it could be benificial top ask if they can impregnate it with varnish.
The input stage could have its own transformer. Could be a standard R core because the output voltage will be defined by the regulator. Just take care you have enough voltage drop across the regulator.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s the preferred amps test by Jean Hiraga was done on high efficiency drivers. The Hiraga could be used with a variety of speakers the other ones are more critical to match for sure!
Hiraga Parts List
Please see parts list below, add anything you feel is missing or could do with!
Thanks
Amplifier Enclosure
Heavy Duty Aluminum Extruded Finned heatsinks, custom enclosures.
1.Male Power Socket Fused Red Rocker Switch IEC320 C14 Inlet
1/2/3/5/10 Male Power Socket Fused Red Rocker Switch IEC320 C14 Inlet Quality | eBay
Thoughts on using a EMI filter?
2 X SCHAFFNER EMI FILTER, IEC FILTER , 6A, 250VAC FN261-6-06 | eBay
2. Speaker Binding Posts x 4
3. Audio Binding Post Gold-Plated RCA Chassis Panel Sockets Connectors
4. Soft Start Power on switch.
5. Various bolts and nuts etc
PSU
1. R-CORE Transformer
input- 115-120-0-120-115
output 18-21-24-0-24-21-18
650va
2. Small 240v to 12v transformer
3. 2 x Lundahl L2733
http://www.lundahl.se/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/2733.pdf
4. Bridge Rectifiers
VISHAY 60A 600v
1 x Vishay VS-60EPS08 Input Rectifier Diode, 800V 60A,VF at 60A 1.09V 2-Pin | eBay
OR
-SQL Type 4 Pins Diode Heatsink Bridge Rectifier 60A 1200V | eBay
this would be easier to use.
-QL Type Single Phase Diode Heatsink Bridge Rectifier 60A 1200V
2 x 54000uf or 64000uf Capacitors 40v
4 x 100,000uf or 220,000uf capacitors 40v
2 x 2.2uf capacitors
some form of Power Amplifier Soft Start Delay Protection Board
Do i need a speaker protection module aswell?
Also fuses on both negative and positive power output?
Already have the Amp boards.
Just received my various transistors!
MJL21193/MJL21194
2SA1837 PNP + 2SC4793 NPN
Please see parts list below, add anything you feel is missing or could do with!
Thanks
Amplifier Enclosure
Heavy Duty Aluminum Extruded Finned heatsinks, custom enclosures.
1.Male Power Socket Fused Red Rocker Switch IEC320 C14 Inlet
1/2/3/5/10 Male Power Socket Fused Red Rocker Switch IEC320 C14 Inlet Quality | eBay
Thoughts on using a EMI filter?
2 X SCHAFFNER EMI FILTER, IEC FILTER , 6A, 250VAC FN261-6-06 | eBay
2. Speaker Binding Posts x 4
3. Audio Binding Post Gold-Plated RCA Chassis Panel Sockets Connectors
4. Soft Start Power on switch.
5. Various bolts and nuts etc
PSU
1. R-CORE Transformer
input- 115-120-0-120-115
output 18-21-24-0-24-21-18
650va
2. Small 240v to 12v transformer
3. 2 x Lundahl L2733
http://www.lundahl.se/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/2733.pdf
4. Bridge Rectifiers
VISHAY 60A 600v
1 x Vishay VS-60EPS08 Input Rectifier Diode, 800V 60A,VF at 60A 1.09V 2-Pin | eBay
OR
-SQL Type 4 Pins Diode Heatsink Bridge Rectifier 60A 1200V | eBay
this would be easier to use.
-QL Type Single Phase Diode Heatsink Bridge Rectifier 60A 1200V
2 x 54000uf or 64000uf Capacitors 40v
4 x 100,000uf or 220,000uf capacitors 40v
2 x 2.2uf capacitors
some form of Power Amplifier Soft Start Delay Protection Board
Do i need a speaker protection module aswell?
Also fuses on both negative and positive power output?
Already have the Amp boards.
Just received my various transistors!
MJL21193/MJL21194
2SA1837 PNP + 2SC4793 NPN
Hello,
I used the lundahl LL2733 in my dddac which has a single rail supply. So i could use one coil in the '' plus line '' and in the other coil in the return.
In the past the French did make a Kaneda ( Solstice ) preamp that also did use a choke with 2 coils. This device did a double rail power supply and they did use one coil in the + and the other coil in the -.
Some years ago i did ask Lundahl if that could be done with the LL2733 as well. They said sure if the load by the amp is symmetrical.
Anyone willing to try that?
In the near future i will use a pair of LL2733 in my mcintosch mc2505. There i cannot try it because i will keep the original power transformer and 1,7 ohm will give to much voltage drop.
I also wonder which connection will be the best 100mH 0,85 ohm or 400 mH 3,4 ohm.
You dont see many chokes in solid state power amps . Like i told before the one i used in my Hiraga was developped for another amp other ones were not available. Now Hammond does make a few but Lundahl is way better and has more mH and the right current rating.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s in the attachment you can see my dddac and how close the ll2733 can be mounted to the circuit. One of the chokes is used in choke input so will have a bigger field than normal
I used the lundahl LL2733 in my dddac which has a single rail supply. So i could use one coil in the '' plus line '' and in the other coil in the return.
In the past the French did make a Kaneda ( Solstice ) preamp that also did use a choke with 2 coils. This device did a double rail power supply and they did use one coil in the + and the other coil in the -.
Some years ago i did ask Lundahl if that could be done with the LL2733 as well. They said sure if the load by the amp is symmetrical.
Anyone willing to try that?
In the near future i will use a pair of LL2733 in my mcintosch mc2505. There i cannot try it because i will keep the original power transformer and 1,7 ohm will give to much voltage drop.
I also wonder which connection will be the best 100mH 0,85 ohm or 400 mH 3,4 ohm.
You dont see many chokes in solid state power amps . Like i told before the one i used in my Hiraga was developped for another amp other ones were not available. Now Hammond does make a few but Lundahl is way better and has more mH and the right current rating.
Greetings, Eduard
P.s in the attachment you can see my dddac and how close the ll2733 can be mounted to the circuit. One of the chokes is used in choke input so will have a bigger field than normal
Attachments
Hello,
Dont forget the static screen on the power transformer.
It could well be possible that you dont need a soft start if the first cap is 56000µF. A r core transformer does not create a big surge when you switch it on. If you use a 500 VA toriodal even with small caps you need a current limiter.
You could try connecting R core caps and chokes and use two BIG resistor to create a load equal to the amp and see what happens. If i remember well my hiraga amp did need a 10A slow blow fuse.
Take a look at Pomona binding post. I never used them but they look like good quality ones.
The switch with fuse incorporated is just ok.
I would just a more heavy duty switch, a seperate fuseholder.
I have never seen Hiraga with fuses in the power supply.
BE SURE TO USE A DC SPEAKER PROTECTION.
Not sure if you need a power filter. I think getting a static screen on both of the r cores is much cheaper.
It seems important to keep wires from the transformer to the rectifier and then to the first cap as short as possible.
Greetings, Eduard
Dont forget the static screen on the power transformer.
It could well be possible that you dont need a soft start if the first cap is 56000µF. A r core transformer does not create a big surge when you switch it on. If you use a 500 VA toriodal even with small caps you need a current limiter.
You could try connecting R core caps and chokes and use two BIG resistor to create a load equal to the amp and see what happens. If i remember well my hiraga amp did need a 10A slow blow fuse.
Take a look at Pomona binding post. I never used them but they look like good quality ones.
The switch with fuse incorporated is just ok.
I would just a more heavy duty switch, a seperate fuseholder.
I have never seen Hiraga with fuses in the power supply.
BE SURE TO USE A DC SPEAKER PROTECTION.
Not sure if you need a power filter. I think getting a static screen on both of the r cores is much cheaper.
It seems important to keep wires from the transformer to the rectifier and then to the first cap as short as possible.
Greetings, Eduard
I have specified this, but then i am relying on a middle man to the manufacturer, this is all in China by the way. So you can never be sure what you will get. So as i back up i sourced two manufacturers in the UK who can make a EI transformer with EVERYTHING, you name it they will build it
If i use the R-CORE providing it is safe and works as it should it will be 650va. For the EI i have to choose how much VA i ask for to the manufacturer, my thoughts were go dual mono use 400va. But then you showed me about using chokes "hahaha"
which then increased my budget.So I may go 800va (bigger the better right on class a
) and build one power supply. Anyway still thinking about this. I wonder if there is a NEED for a ready made Hiraga Transformers for other builders. Would anyone be interested if i had a batch made? . I am a little frightened when it comes to BIG CURRENTS and HIGH VOLTAGE projects. Having been electrocuted far too many times i need to slowly get SAFELY back into electrics and safety. When the time comes ill be sure to ask you about LOADING the PSU.Will do!
Agreed, was just researching and getting an idea on switches, fuses etc.
True. I think i may have seen one, or read it somewhere.
Of Course! Im on it, want to protect my collection of lovely speakers!
No power Filter if transformers come as we have asked for. My thoughts were to keep it minimal and tidy on the build. Wiring i would like advice on what others have used, i would like quality cables for both power and audio use.
I am really enjoying this guys, seriously thank you for the inspiration and continued help.
Vishalk,
I think none of those diodes are that good for your aplication. Pano is saying that you may have higher switching noises induced in your capacitor bank, and if the grounding and wiring is not done well you can hear some noises other than music, coming out from your speakers...
Your diodes are 60eps(very low voltage drop) series and mine are 60epu (ultrafast soft recovery)series.
Look closely at your diodes:
https://www.google.ro/url?sa=t&sour...MgIiPW72mnZNGQrQA&sig2=aNnWU7l895s_e9h1s8klgw
And mine:
https://www.google.ro/url?sa=t&sour...Bqu2Yx9Vodj55ehQg&sig2=VIbaoHwl6CXWRIo99CBlRw
I sugest you find some soft recovery types and forget those industrial diode bridges with radiators..
Cheers
I think none of those diodes are that good for your aplication. Pano is saying that you may have higher switching noises induced in your capacitor bank, and if the grounding and wiring is not done well you can hear some noises other than music, coming out from your speakers...
Your diodes are 60eps(very low voltage drop) series and mine are 60epu (ultrafast soft recovery)series.
Look closely at your diodes:
https://www.google.ro/url?sa=t&sour...MgIiPW72mnZNGQrQA&sig2=aNnWU7l895s_e9h1s8klgw
And mine:
https://www.google.ro/url?sa=t&sour...Bqu2Yx9Vodj55ehQg&sig2=VIbaoHwl6CXWRIo99CBlRw
I sugest you find some soft recovery types and forget those industrial diode bridges with radiators..
Cheers
Or instead of a single expensive r core you could buy two well made custom EI's. You should know that when i tested both channels on a single trafo i got less spatiality and depth of field and 3d imaging than with two separated psu's (one for each channel). Dont get me wrong, with just one trafo the voice had presence, effects and all the finess but if you want a "be there effect" and the singer singing at 1m in front of you and catch every breath and wisper clearly and pick up each and every instrument with accuracy from the stage go dual mono like Sadik or dual mono in the same case like mine. You wont regret the extra money.
If i were to build this amp again from scratch i will go dual mono again.
Ps: i think that the single Hiraga with fuses on the rails and fuses on trafos and outputs is mine. The amp has no prob with this, neither the music..
If i were to build this amp again from scratch i will go dual mono again.
Ps: i think that the single Hiraga with fuses on the rails and fuses on trafos and outputs is mine.
The amp has no prob with this, neither the music..
Last edited:
Hello,
If i would build it again i would use an R core which will give two secundairy windings that are identical because R core has two identical parts. Cannot make that with EI core.
If i would build it again i would make it with a choke input power supply. A bit difficult to get right because you need a transformer with higher output voltage. You need to create a minimum load through a resistor to assure that there is alkways a minimum current flow through the choke.
I did use the dc protection developped by the people in Paris. It was fed by the 24 volts of the output stage. I also did use a resistor and a switch to lower the 24 volts as a kind of standby. Caps were always charged with around 10? volts. The amp would run verry low on energy. When listening just had to toggle that switch.
In France one seldom sees double mono Hiraga construction. I think one big power supply is better than two smaller.
Greetings, Eduard
If i would build it again i would use an R core which will give two secundairy windings that are identical because R core has two identical parts. Cannot make that with EI core.
If i would build it again i would make it with a choke input power supply. A bit difficult to get right because you need a transformer with higher output voltage. You need to create a minimum load through a resistor to assure that there is alkways a minimum current flow through the choke.
I did use the dc protection developped by the people in Paris. It was fed by the 24 volts of the output stage. I also did use a resistor and a switch to lower the 24 volts as a kind of standby. Caps were always charged with around 10? volts. The amp would run verry low on energy. When listening just had to toggle that switch.
In France one seldom sees double mono Hiraga construction. I think one big power supply is better than two smaller.
Greetings, Eduard