Hello,
I'm hoping for some suggestions for speakers that are particularly suited to playing Jazz. My current plan is to build a pair of Bottlehead Paramounts (300B) or perhaps an offering from Welborne. I currently have a pair of Thiel CS 1.6's mated to a SS amp and CD player. Nothing special yet I was hoping to take better advantage of the Thiels. From what I've seen, it appears the Thiels aren't a very good match for an SET amp. They're spec's: 88db sensitivity, 4 ohm/3 minimum and a minimum amplification of 50 watts. Set's obviously don't match up very well and though P/P is an option I'd rather do an SET. I'm planning on building the amps and just trying them with the Thiels and see what happens. Worth a try at least. I listen in a small room at low to medium spl levels. I'd guess that 95% of what I listen to is jazz. I suspect that setup may not prove suitable for long. So, I've begun looking into potential DIY speaker projects. If you enjoy Jazz, what speakers are you using and what insights can you offer. Details about DIY projects would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
I'm hoping for some suggestions for speakers that are particularly suited to playing Jazz. My current plan is to build a pair of Bottlehead Paramounts (300B) or perhaps an offering from Welborne. I currently have a pair of Thiel CS 1.6's mated to a SS amp and CD player. Nothing special yet I was hoping to take better advantage of the Thiels. From what I've seen, it appears the Thiels aren't a very good match for an SET amp. They're spec's: 88db sensitivity, 4 ohm/3 minimum and a minimum amplification of 50 watts. Set's obviously don't match up very well and though P/P is an option I'd rather do an SET. I'm planning on building the amps and just trying them with the Thiels and see what happens. Worth a try at least. I listen in a small room at low to medium spl levels. I'd guess that 95% of what I listen to is jazz. I suspect that setup may not prove suitable for long. So, I've begun looking into potential DIY speaker projects. If you enjoy Jazz, what speakers are you using and what insights can you offer. Details about DIY projects would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
I'm probably the most inexperienced speaker builder on this site but I'll tell you my experiences. My amp is an Audio Note Kit 1 Signature 300B SET. I built a pair of 45 litre bass reflex boxes loaded with Fostex FE206E, I wanted to try them on my hi-fi and I thought that they could be my AV front speakers if they weren't that good. Actually they sound superb, and of all music genres tried I think that jazz is the best. Detail is incredible, I feel like I have seen John Coltrane live now ! Bass reflex aren't really the correct boxes so I'm now building Fostex FE206ES-R in Fostex recommended enclosures (horns), these are better drivers in better enclosures although to be honest the speakers I've already built sound great (especially with jazz !). The first speakers cost me 260 UKP, the next set will cost 550 UKP - should be even cheaper in the USA. Hope this helps.
Best for Jazz? IMO, something ALTEC. Put an Altec 604 or 605 coaxial driver in a big box, find one of the new crossovers and "Bob's your uncle!" With a 300B SET you'll be in Jazz Heaven.
But if you don't have a huge wallet and a large place to put the big boxes, one of the fullrange drivers like Fostex should do the trick. Most fullrange guys are jazz fans.
The key is that with your amp you want a speaker that is in at least the low 90s sensitivity. Mid to upper 90s is better.
Have you looked at the BIB stuff?
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
But if you don't have a huge wallet and a large place to put the big boxes, one of the fullrange drivers like Fostex should do the trick. Most fullrange guys are jazz fans.
The key is that with your amp you want a speaker that is in at least the low 90s sensitivity. Mid to upper 90s is better.
Have you looked at the BIB stuff?
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
Since you are posting to this board, I assume you are interested in a single-driver solution.
Since you mentioned your small room and low output requirements, I will assume that a full-on Lowther in rear-loaded horn treatment would be unfeasible.
I think the Fostex FE166E or FE167E might fit your bill. They are rated 94 dB, which I think is reasonable, and their 6.5" size is probably a good fit for your needs.
For the FE166E, I recommend the Austin rev G. Plans can be found here:
http://fullrangedriver.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=3
For the FE167E, I recommend Martin King's project 2, which can be found here:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project02/Project02.html
The project whitepaper includes plans for a folded version, which might be more visually appealing to you.
Since you mentioned your small room and low output requirements, I will assume that a full-on Lowther in rear-loaded horn treatment would be unfeasible.
I think the Fostex FE166E or FE167E might fit your bill. They are rated 94 dB, which I think is reasonable, and their 6.5" size is probably a good fit for your needs.
For the FE166E, I recommend the Austin rev G. Plans can be found here:
http://fullrangedriver.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=3
For the FE167E, I recommend Martin King's project 2, which can be found here:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project02/Project02.html
The project whitepaper includes plans for a folded version, which might be more visually appealing to you.
Agreed. Either of the above are stunning designs. A Frugelhorn or Metronome might also be possible, though are less efficient.
Lowther PM6C in my ML TL, lowest cost option, or maybe a DX3 if you have the funds. I listen to acoustic jazz all the time and with a SS amp and BSC circuit it is an excellent sounding combination. Lowthers are a cut above all the Fostex drivers I have heard, but I must admit I have not heard them all.
Agreed on the Lowther front. Steve's EX4s are the best drivers I've ever heard. Actually, I tend to prefer the Fostex FE208ESigma with supertweeters, but that says more about the kind of music I listen to (mostly rock based) than the drivers. For jazz, or other acoustic music, I can't see anything at all beating the Lowthers, assuming you can afford them.
What sort of Jazz do you listen to ? Real Jazz or what I like (which is normally derided as "funky elevator music" Smooth Jazz.
I originally put a Fostex 206E in a BR 45 litre box. Fabulous. Very detailed, but not a great deal of bass.
Then built the 208 Horn for it, Which I am still tuning, but gives a HUGE sound. I think I probably need a bigger room, but it is infitely tunable. If you get too much bass stuff a cushion in the mouth and go from there. I have just had a brainwave. Cushions, mouth WAF.....?????
I originally put a Fostex 206E in a BR 45 litre box. Fabulous. Very detailed, but not a great deal of bass.
Then built the 208 Horn for it, Which I am still tuning, but gives a HUGE sound. I think I probably need a bigger room, but it is infitely tunable. If you get too much bass stuff a cushion in the mouth and go from there. I have just had a brainwave. Cushions, mouth WAF.....?????
I play jazz with Jordan JX92S drivers in a transmission line, a TA-2020 based T-Amp and a BlueNote Piccolo turntable. Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Nina Simone, Sarah Vaughan, they all sound great.
Yes, I have a 2020 Tripath amp, but prefer the sound of my modded S.I Tripath 2024 amp with the 206e's
I tend to prefer the Fostex FE208ESigma with supertweeters, but that says more about the kind of music I listen to (mostly rock based) than the drivers. For jazz, or other acoustic music, I can't see anything at all beating the Lowthers, assuming you can afford them.
I like my 208s with the ribbon tweets, My mainstay is old rock and R&B and even with the less efficent old Dallas(not the II) design ( damn i am lazy about building) with the batt P/S GC they give me what i want which is accurate sound with a soundstage that is exceptional and a totally black hole background.
ron
I like my 208s with the ribbon tweets, My mainstay is old rock and R&B and even with the less efficent old Dallas(not the II) design ( damn i am lazy about building) with the batt P/S GC they give me what i want which is accurate sound with a soundstage that is exceptional and a totally black hole background.
ron
Mr Intojazz,
I think you will be surprised at what a 300B amp can do!....
My main speakers have similar efficiency and I find that a 20 watt tube amp is plenty of power for me. I have tried a ten watt tube amp, and it works well enough if you don't need concert levels.
4 Ohms is not an issue as long as you have a 4 Ohm tap on the output transformer. If the speaker impedance isn't very flat, you may notice a change in sonics between a transistor and tube amp.
I think you will be surprised at what a 300B amp can do!....
My main speakers have similar efficiency and I find that a 20 watt tube amp is plenty of power for me. I have tried a ten watt tube amp, and it works well enough if you don't need concert levels.
4 Ohms is not an issue as long as you have a 4 Ohm tap on the output transformer. If the speaker impedance isn't very flat, you may notice a change in sonics between a transistor and tube amp.
I've particularly enjoyed (but don't own all of ) the following combinations:
FE126 Frugelhorns, Austin A126, FE127 Fonkens, FE127 PAWOs ( detect a pattern?); with either Bottlehead ParamourII (2A3) or DIY parafeed EF86/EL84 SEP. What these driver/enclosures lack in deep bass extension is more than compensated by dynamics / pace and midrange transparency, texture and soundstage. They can all sound way bigger than the box suggests - more than a few folks have asked "where'd you hide the woofers?".
Hawthorne Silver Iris 15" co-ax open baffle with Bottlehead Paramount 300B will certainly fill most rooms with that smoky small club vibe. Personally I find the 300B with smaller drivers a bit on the fat & dark side.
Visaton B200 open baffle with either the 2A3 or EL84SEP
Fostex FE206ESR in recommended BLH with Welborne Labs DRD45 (SS rectification) - yes less than 2 watts can definitely rock.
FE126 Frugelhorns, Austin A126, FE127 Fonkens, FE127 PAWOs ( detect a pattern?); with either Bottlehead ParamourII (2A3) or DIY parafeed EF86/EL84 SEP. What these driver/enclosures lack in deep bass extension is more than compensated by dynamics / pace and midrange transparency, texture and soundstage. They can all sound way bigger than the box suggests - more than a few folks have asked "where'd you hide the woofers?".
Hawthorne Silver Iris 15" co-ax open baffle with Bottlehead Paramount 300B will certainly fill most rooms with that smoky small club vibe. Personally I find the 300B with smaller drivers a bit on the fat & dark side.
Visaton B200 open baffle with either the 2A3 or EL84SEP
Fostex FE206ESR in recommended BLH with Welborne Labs DRD45 (SS rectification) - yes less than 2 watts can definitely rock.
Help me upgrade my 8" speakers
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I want to upgrade the 8" woofer and maybe the 2" piezo tweeter in my Crate Taxi 30 amps for live jazz. I want full range speakers, not guitar speakers like it has now. I don't know what speaker will make it sound more like a studio monitor. Can you recommend a brand or model?
Taxi 30 amp specs:
Speakers: Woofer Crate Custom Design 8", 8 ohm, 50 watt; Tweeter 2" Piezo, 8 ohm, 50 watt
Output Power Rating: 30 watts RMS @ 10% THD, 8 ohms, 13.6VDC in
Channel 1 EQs: +/-15dB @ 600Hz
Power Requirements: Internal 12VDC power supply; DC adapter for 120VAC; 12V vehicle lighter adapter (optional)
20 lbs.
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I want to upgrade the 8" woofer and maybe the 2" piezo tweeter in my Crate Taxi 30 amps for live jazz. I want full range speakers, not guitar speakers like it has now. I don't know what speaker will make it sound more like a studio monitor. Can you recommend a brand or model?
Taxi 30 amp specs:
Speakers: Woofer Crate Custom Design 8", 8 ohm, 50 watt; Tweeter 2" Piezo, 8 ohm, 50 watt
Output Power Rating: 30 watts RMS @ 10% THD, 8 ohms, 13.6VDC in
Channel 1 EQs: +/-15dB @ 600Hz
Power Requirements: Internal 12VDC power supply; DC adapter for 120VAC; 12V vehicle lighter adapter (optional)
20 lbs.
Possibly, although since the last post in this thread was 9 years ago, I suspect it's a bit late for that. 😉
>>> Have you looked at the BIB stuff?
>>> ww... zillaspeak...
Info on BIBs is here now. I had to shut down the zillaspeak site years ago, sorry.
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/cabinet-types/bib-loudspeakers/
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/cabinet-types/bib-loudspeakers/bib-calculator/
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/cabinet-types/bib-loudspeakers/bib-pictures/
Reading this post from the beginning was like a small trip down memory lane. I wonder if the OP built his SET amp and what speakers he decided on in the end to enjoy JAZZ?
>>> ww... zillaspeak...
Info on BIBs is here now. I had to shut down the zillaspeak site years ago, sorry.
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/cabinet-types/bib-loudspeakers/
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/cabinet-types/bib-loudspeakers/bib-calculator/
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com/cabinet-types/bib-loudspeakers/bib-pictures/
Reading this post from the beginning was like a small trip down memory lane. I wonder if the OP built his SET amp and what speakers he decided on in the end to enjoy JAZZ?
Godzilla,
I built a pair of Dick Olsher inspired Bazzilla speakers (97 db efficient). I also built a pair of Bottlehead Paramount SET amps ( 300B initially, now 2A3). I’m using an Extended Foreplay 3 pre (6SN7). These speakers are good in a large space and handle Jazz fairly well. But there is no real magic to the sound, at least from what my old ears can still discern. Recently I’ve moved to a much smaller home and have begun searching again for suitable speakers. I’m considering the Mark Audio Alpair 12P , a Jordan Jx92 and maybe using the Fostex FE208e∑ from the Bazzillas in a different cabinet. Ideas? Suggestions?
I’m not experienced beyond what you see here that I’ve built.
Thanks
I built a pair of Dick Olsher inspired Bazzilla speakers (97 db efficient). I also built a pair of Bottlehead Paramount SET amps ( 300B initially, now 2A3). I’m using an Extended Foreplay 3 pre (6SN7). These speakers are good in a large space and handle Jazz fairly well. But there is no real magic to the sound, at least from what my old ears can still discern. Recently I’ve moved to a much smaller home and have begun searching again for suitable speakers. I’m considering the Mark Audio Alpair 12P , a Jordan Jx92 and maybe using the Fostex FE208e∑ from the Bazzillas in a different cabinet. Ideas? Suggestions?
I’m not experienced beyond what you see here that I’ve built.
Thanks