jantzen standard z cap vs claritycap ESA

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#101
http://cosweb1.fau.edu/~jordanrg/LLS_2014/slides_6A.pdf

This discusses waveforms and spectra of musical instruments, the human signing voice, etc. Most of this is basic and many of us already are aware of these things. What I found interesting is on the the page labeled 39; there is a comparison between an "ordinary" violin and a da Vinci Stradivarius (1725) violin. They are both playing the exact same note, "A4" or 440 Hz. Note how much "richer" the spectrum of the Strad is! Now imagine an "ordinary" capacitor, it may mask or veil certain portions of the spectra, altering the original waveform and resultant spectrum. Where as a higher quality capacitor would be much better at being faithful to the original signal and not alter it nearly as much. Why is this exactly? It's complex, not one simple single variable that gets altered but an entire set of variables come into play here...No, a capacitor is not a violin but I think you get the idea now of what I am trying so hard to say about good vs better vs great and so on. A final thought; some drivers are not very good at reproducing an accurate input signal to begin with. Higher quality drivers are better able to more accurately reproduce the original, incoming waveform. Call it resolution, micro-detail, definition, etc. So, when a simple $20 tweeter sounds better with increasingly higher and higher quality capacitors; imagine what the results would be with a $200 tweeter, $1000 tweeter and so...AND, higher cost does NOT necessarily indicate higher quality; I think we all realize that as well...
 
#102
Ugg10 said:
Hmmmm, I like the idea of a group test, however it can only be valid if the capacitors are all the same size, shape, colour, weight and are unmarked so that the listener does not know what they are listening to or are randomly chosen and inserted without the listener knowing which is playing. This would rule out at least most of unconscious bias, particularly in those that have used the particular capacitors before. The scoring scheme would also need to be well thought out as well. Iirc this was done previously on this forum for 3-4” full range drivers and wav files, maybe there are lessons to be learned from that process.
Click to expand...

The test does not work as long as the testers know they are comparing capacitors. People who believe all capacitors sound the same can't hear any difference, because their brains are already heavily biased. To perform true ABX test, no one should know what they are comparing.
 
#105
Probably true! However, anyone curious could do something along these lines like I did. As I said, my family and friends mostly all agreed with my same findings. These people are musicians and so I value their comments on what sound qualities they preferred. Again they had no knowledge of what I was doing for their A/B and they certainly don't have any electronics backgrounds so their bias on capacitors was non-existent...
 
#106
I bought Superior Z, Mundorf Mcap Supreme and CSA to see if I can hear any difference. I think I can hear the difference, but to be honest, I'm not sure. It's hard to perform ABX test by myself. I still try to believe someone can hear the difference clearly, because I don't want to be biased!
 
#107
You have some high quality capacitors. I know I have a CSA in 2.7 uF and Superior Z in 2.7 uF but can't find it; if I do, I'll compare them directly. When I do these A/B for myself, I do it in mono, 1 channel only. I use high quality recordings I am very familiar with and listen to the same selections over and over again. I do this in the near field, literally the speaker(s) is pointed right at my ears less than 1 meter away. I use clip leads and can go back and forth between two different capacitors instantly, no switches, relays, A/B/X test boxes, very simple, very basic. Only try to compare two at a time; our brain can get overloaded very easily if we have too many choices all at once (make it easy and simple, that is all that is required really).

I try many different types but acoustic jazz is a good choice for me. If you try this with a full symphony orchestra, there is really too much going on all at once. Piano, drum set, acoustic bass; just these 3 is a good place to start...
 
#108
ah hah!!! Found it! 2.7 uF Superior Z vs CSA. The CSA is 250 Volt, 3% and the Sup Z is 800 Volt, 2%...The Sup Z measures 2.78 uF and the CSA measures 2.80 uF on my LCR meter. The CSA brings out more piano middle notes and the Sup Z brings out more cymbals. At first, I will say the Superior Z has a better overall balance; I'll keep going here though as these are both very good choices. On Tenor Sax, the CSA brings out the mids stronger than the Sup Z but the Sup Z digs deeper into the mix. Similar results on bass clarinet; the Superior Z is overall better balanced and more "truthful" but the CSA is no slacker or slouch either...I played every clarinet and every saxophone, also bass, guitar, conducted, recorded and attempted to play every instrument available to me. On wood blocks and similar percussion; the Sup Z has more obvious attack, better decay and better hall reverb retrieval.

https://www.parts-express.com/speak...ylene-crossover-capacitors/capacitance/2.7-uF

from PE site, all of their 2.7 uF choices


ClarityCap CopperConnect 2.7mfd Poly Cap 250V

from Madisound site, my same CSA

So, again, the Superior Z wins this round BUT, if you don't want to spend almost $25 on a capacitor and want to spend less than $10 then the CSA is a very good choice.

I am using my same exact set up as before with the Satori MR16 mid and Peerless/Vifa/Tymphany 100 dB silk dome with horn loading (MR16 in the $150 range, tweeter in the $20 range...not a normal pairing but I'm still trying to make a point about budget tweeters using higher quality capacitors). I am using the same David Arnay CD as before also.

Even on trombone and bari sax the balance and detail are much more exact with the Superior Z; these two instruments are playing in their lower registers but they are both very rich in harmonics and overtones so the first order on the tweeter, even at much higher frequencies than the fundamentals, still has a role with lower voiced instruments.
 
#109
plasnu said:
The test does not work as long as the testers know they are comparing capacitors. People who believe all capacitors sound the same can't hear any difference, because their brains are already heavily biased. To perform true ABX test, no one should know what they are comparing.
Click to expand...

This is why you have to prove in such a test that you can identify a cap without any doubt. A hit rate of at least 90% is necessary for this.
It only becomes interesting when someone can prove it. But I don't know anyone who has passed such a test before ...
 
#111
Well, really the CSA does emphasize the mids but the Superior Z is overall much better balanced through the entire spectrum. The Sup Z does not seem to emphasize anything at all, again, call it neutral. The Sup is is more open, honest or truthful and the CSA does roll off the highest octave compared to the Superior Z. I still consider the CSA a very good choice in that price range though; (it is not bad, it is just not as good).
 
#112
I use CSA for shunt caps and Superior Z for tweeter series cap but found they need .01uf bypass cap to get any shimmer out of them. bypass cap choices vary with different tweeters.....I have a box of different ones that I’ll go through to see which one works best.

Wolf has been quite vocal about the superior silver z , I’ve been wanting to try those next.
 
#115
I haven't tried the Silvers but thought that be something I might try next. I almost always use a bypass regardless. I have some Mundorf Silver/Oil, quite expensive, on my $200+ Fostex tweeter, it took a bypass for even those to do their best. Glad others feel the bypass helps; I never doubted it; not even once! The Silvers and Superiors are very close in price; not like the next jump up to Alumen Z which are $20 more in the same value. I have also been using the CSAs in the shunt circuit of a 2nd order LP.
 
#116
The Silver Z is supposed to be very similar to the Superior but sometimes even minor changes do make improvements. The Clarity Cap CSA is an improvement over the ESA but I think they really didn't make huge changes, only minor ones. I'll re-read the OEM descriptions; maybe the non-believers will always be non-believers and nothing we say will convince them. Too bad, they are truly missing out!
 
#117
The difference between the Silver and Superior Z-Caps are that the
lead-wires for the Silver Z-Caps are made from pure silver.
The Silver Z-Cap has slightly softer sonic presentation than the Superior
Z-Cap.

From the Jantzen Silver Z web pages
 
#119
oldspkrguy said:
The difference between the Silver and Superior Z-Caps are that the
lead-wires for the Silver Z-Caps are made from pure silver.
Click to expand...

Yah......didn’t want to say it though!

As far as why, my theory is silver being more conductive than copper (by about 6% I believe....correct me if wrong) it might cause a little surge in/out of the capacitor (I suppose faster?)...... Seeing as I’m no engineer is that even possible?
 
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#120
^ silver is not more conductive than copper but it'll have this advantage when both material oxidize ( which will happen one way to another in time).

Iow once oxidized silver will be more conductive than copper, when not this is the inverse.
 
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