More specific than that even:
why they exist in a thread specifically asking for casual subjective comparisons? 😕
Bypassing larger caps with smaller ones can have unpredictable consequences, often more negative than positive. I always end up frustrated trying to find the perfect compromise (oxymoron) in doing so and there is no solid formula to go by. I have found that it always ruins the tonal balance by shifting the attention to the better quality bypass cap, especially when bypassing larger low voltage csps with proportionately small values of more exotic higher end caps.
I am by no means a capacitor guru and we all have our own prejudices and preferences, but when it comes to capacitor sound signature and what exactly we actually can describe we are hearing, I believe there aren't any individual specific things we can point fingers at. What we hear is a package deal of all the loss and distortion mechanisms in a given cap and how these interact with the circuit the cap is coupled in (yes, even a power supply places the caps in part of the signal path). I can say the biggest factor is the dielectric material used in conjunction with the conducting material along with its mechanical interface i.e. stacked or wound PP film foil vs. PP film vs. Mylar (evil) film etc. etc.
There are so many things going on in the physical makeup of a cap that gives it a specific sound signature. Designing audio coupling caps is a black art in itself. The only one thing I focus on as a fundamental prejudice is the dielectric and whether it has magnetic lead wires. For me, for speaker crossover applications, this means PP film or film/foil with copper leads (possibly silver plated). As for low level audio coupling, i always try to avoid caps in the signal path being I'm mainly a solid state fan, but if it can't, I would always try a PP film/foil cap with non-ferrous leads first, size permitting.
As for differences between brands of similar constructed caps, it always boils down to the quality and consistency in manufacturing which makes the biggest difference. I have found that winding tension consistency is difficult to maintain and this causes a noticeable difference in sound from batch to batch within the same brand/type of cap. This issue is worse in the cheaper Chinese film caps than in the more regarded European caps. Aside from the more apparent factors, trial and error along with a good set of ears is the only thing that I can rely on when picking a cap. This makes for a big expensive surplus of left over caps with all the closer tolerance prefered matching values gone.
The appliction and chosen place/duty in a circuit can make a huge difference whether one cap sounds fitting (even "magical"), out of place or unexpected completely wrong. I've preferred an older Solen PP 400v to a Mundorf EVO in some situations, despite the Solen being classified by most as rather edgy and cold. I've even used non polar electrolytics over film caps (rare but has happened a few times). It all depends on how it balances out in the whole signal path.
I am by no means a capacitor guru and we all have our own prejudices and preferences, but when it comes to capacitor sound signature and what exactly we actually can describe we are hearing, I believe there aren't any individual specific things we can point fingers at. What we hear is a package deal of all the loss and distortion mechanisms in a given cap and how these interact with the circuit the cap is coupled in (yes, even a power supply places the caps in part of the signal path). I can say the biggest factor is the dielectric material used in conjunction with the conducting material along with its mechanical interface i.e. stacked or wound PP film foil vs. PP film vs. Mylar (evil) film etc. etc.
There are so many things going on in the physical makeup of a cap that gives it a specific sound signature. Designing audio coupling caps is a black art in itself. The only one thing I focus on as a fundamental prejudice is the dielectric and whether it has magnetic lead wires. For me, for speaker crossover applications, this means PP film or film/foil with copper leads (possibly silver plated). As for low level audio coupling, i always try to avoid caps in the signal path being I'm mainly a solid state fan, but if it can't, I would always try a PP film/foil cap with non-ferrous leads first, size permitting.
As for differences between brands of similar constructed caps, it always boils down to the quality and consistency in manufacturing which makes the biggest difference. I have found that winding tension consistency is difficult to maintain and this causes a noticeable difference in sound from batch to batch within the same brand/type of cap. This issue is worse in the cheaper Chinese film caps than in the more regarded European caps. Aside from the more apparent factors, trial and error along with a good set of ears is the only thing that I can rely on when picking a cap. This makes for a big expensive surplus of left over caps with all the closer tolerance prefered matching values gone.
The appliction and chosen place/duty in a circuit can make a huge difference whether one cap sounds fitting (even "magical"), out of place or unexpected completely wrong. I've preferred an older Solen PP 400v to a Mundorf EVO in some situations, despite the Solen being classified by most as rather edgy and cold. I've even used non polar electrolytics over film caps (rare but has happened a few times). It all depends on how it balances out in the whole signal path.
Well, there is "bypass" (very small uf value added relative to the overall uf); to me this is all about perceived clarity.
..and then there is having enough enough quantity (cap.s) and value (uf) to basically "blend" the sound produced by both to achieve a better result (or at least get a result that is more similar to the more modest value (uf) cap array.
I've actually had more problems with the former than the latter. Tony's cheap bypass cap suggestion (original Vishay pf cap.) didn't work well with more expensive cap's when I tried them (even something like Audyn Plus), but a cheaper MKP cap (for the most part) did. Also, didn't like the effect with motor-run cap.s (..but I did like a single larger value (nearing 1 uf) higher voltage cap. with this). Overall I reserve "bypass" for tweeter or upper midrange only (..though "secretly" I've always wanted to try a teflon bypass for midrange and bass).
As to the latter, the greater number of cap.s and uf value distribution - tends to diminish any negative result. Ex. 4 smaller more expensive cap.s and 3 larger less expensive cap.s to net your uf value with at least 20 percent (sometimes 40 percent) of the uf value in the more expensive cap. array relative to the less expensive cap. array. This is what I look to for larger uf value results.
Also, this is interesting with respect to the CSA: (from Tony's description on his cap page)
"I also found the CSA to mix extremely well with the Jantzen Audio Alumen Z-Cap. A mix of a minimum of 20% Alumen Z-Cap with the rest Clarity Cap CSA enhanced realism of space and lushness of tone. They blend together seamlessly."
Presumably he stating that the number of cap.s is irrelevant in this grouping - as in 1 CSA and 1 Alumen Z with at least 80/20 uf.
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Then you should be specific rather than periodically slapping up disconnected rants in a manner that appears to an impartial observer to be directed at people who have in no way justified such behaviour. For all anybody new to this thread knew, it could have been directed at Alan, myself or many other contributors here who have in no way addressed you in the manner you pronounce.
Well to be fair Scottmoose I couldn’t tell if Alan’s ‘OK’ was agreement or sarcasm, but either way, yah a bit crotchety......some old guys are just like that!
it is kindly hard discussing these subjective opinions (that aren’t supposed to exist) out in the open.....I’m sure the regulars are chomping at the bit! 😀
it is kindly hard discussing these subjective opinions (that aren’t supposed to exist) out in the open.....I’m sure the regulars are chomping at the bit! 😀
Interesting. I was agreeing with oldspkrguy.
Of course, there's more to say. Finding the opportunity is more the challenge.
Now I get it, you cap people want to colour your sound as written by ScottG in
"GR-Research "improving" on (RIP) Siegfried Linkwitz designs" in post3
"A decent digital crossover though that's implemented well can sound very good, though you might miss some of the character that certain passive parts (quality cap's) can provide in key areas like the tweeter"
I thought that quality caps should be transparent, I stick with my DSP then...
"GR-Research "improving" on (RIP) Siegfried Linkwitz designs" in post3
"A decent digital crossover though that's implemented well can sound very good, though you might miss some of the character that certain passive parts (quality cap's) can provide in key areas like the tweeter"
I thought that quality caps should be transparent, I stick with my DSP then...
Well, if it's from an objective perspective with no meaningful change in freq. response then just how could it be "coloring" the sound utilizing a passive crossover? 😉
Still, I think that's part of it - and yes I think there is often a very slight loss in perceived clarity even with the best cap.s (and passive crossover in total) vs. a good digital implementation.
HOWEVER, they can also "shape" images in a beneficial way: effectively "rendering" a more 3D image.
Also, they can add a damping effect that cut's down on some of the "zippy" nature of certain drivers (which is absolutely an artificial character).
I guess then that's the fallacy of thinking that a digitial active is inherently superior to an excellent passive crossover: absolute perfect presentation of what the drivers are doing is NOT the goal of a good design, drivers have their own character and not all of it is "as desired".
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I'm sure you know that modern measuring equipment is not revealing the details at home or even outside environment! Too much reflections and too high background noise in most cases. I can tweak with DSP and hear some small difference but measures don't change much...
Haven't you mistyped it? Shouldn't have been something like this?
"The human brain is WAY more capable of inflating its own ego than any machine for arts and music...PERIOD!"
"I love the smell of CAPS LOCK in the evening"😀
"The human brain is WAY more capable of inflating its own ego than any machine for arts and music...PERIOD!"
"I love the smell of CAPS LOCK in the evening"😀
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