i listen very often sb29 and it don't to be roolled off is more open and deteiled but never fatiguing.
you what you think ?
how sound the miflex?
what model ?
I have Alum Z also. I use the Mundorf silver/oil on my Fostex ST with a CDE 940C bypass. I used the Alum Z on MA P7PHD and Satori MR16 mids. But, the OP is asking about Standard Z and ESA so I think the Alum Z, etc. are beyond the budget in this project. I also have some Copper coil caps for my next high end tweeters. Right now the copper foil caps are just for experimenting...
If the OP finds his SB29 a bit dull, it's due to the lesser off axis response of a ring radiator. I found them dull too until I heard JeffB's Mandolins and Piccolos. He improved the power response by allowing a small rise in the upper treble.
As to caps, I agree with old' list mostly. The Standard cane bring some sparkle, with warmth, but a little closed in sometimes. SA/ESA are only slightly more open sounding, maybe slightly more detail. My benchmarks are the Jantzen Silver. If you want smooth and broad soundstage, try the ASC 386x or 387x. I prefer those over the Mundorf aluminum oils, which to me sound a bit murky in the mids.
I try to stay away from 100vdc rated caps, as peak to peak function doubles the voltage swing. 250vdc caps ensure a safer margin.
Wolf
As to caps, I agree with old' list mostly. The Standard cane bring some sparkle, with warmth, but a little closed in sometimes. SA/ESA are only slightly more open sounding, maybe slightly more detail. My benchmarks are the Jantzen Silver. If you want smooth and broad soundstage, try the ASC 386x or 387x. I prefer those over the Mundorf aluminum oils, which to me sound a bit murky in the mids.
I try to stay away from 100vdc rated caps, as peak to peak function doubles the voltage swing. 250vdc caps ensure a safer margin.
Wolf
The sb29 dull?, never for me, realy.
To me is better then scan-speak D2608/91300 and also more detailed.
From my point of view when it comes in particular to anular tweeters (scan.speak ring radiator, they has not a good reputation) it is too prejudiced.
I think axb test resolve your doubts.
For the stanfard you mean jantzen standard z cap, right ?
about it yes i'm agree with you....sometime ago i listened to them and i find very strange effect: seems they have a loudness equalization and strange imaging.
seems they are open, but not realy.
qhen you compare them to most neutral cap of the same league you note that the standards are pleasant but something is missing, very noticable.
Unfortunately i heva never compared to ESA😡
I may have some time today to dig through my old parts boxes. I will make an honest attempt to get ESA, CSA, Standard and Superior Z and others as close in value as I can find and run more listening tests.
I'm in the middle of the USA, it's coffee and breakfast time and we are WAY below freezing temps outside these days; breaking all kinds of records for extreme cold and wind chills! So, this old guy's arthritis is kicking into high gear and I am slow moving for sure but I need to get my parts boxes organized again anyway. Every time I start a new project, parts get all jumbled and mixed up then it gets harder and harder to sort by type, etc. I literally have 100's of capacitors so it takes time! ha ha...nothing better to do on a cold day!
OK, first values I found are 2.7 uF. I know I have a Superior Z 2.7 uF just haven't found it yet. Between the CSA, Audyn Q4 and Standard Z this is what I am hearing.
The CSA is by far the best of these 3 choices; compared to the others, it has more detail in the entire range. The Audyn Q4 adds more lower end and the Standard Z adds more high end.
I am doing this in mono only; I have my Satori MR16 mid crossed lower than normal on purpose so it's extended high end is rolled off enough to not confuse me when listening to the tweeter.
The tweeter is a basic horn loaded silk dome; Tymphany/Peerless/Vifa model BC25SC08-04. The nice thing about the new Tymphany site is you can move your mouse along the FR SPL curve and also the impedance curve and it gives you exact values.
BC25SC08-04 - Tymphany
I am using this tweeter because it is budget priced but also has a very flat response and very high output and it rolls off nicely so there is no break up peak whatsoever.
I just now compared 1.5 uF Aluminum Z to the Superior Z. The Alum Z does have more detail than the Superior Z but the differences are not as great as say between the CSA and the Standard Z.
Peerless by Tymphany BC25SC08-04 1" Silk Dome Neodymium Tweeter with Waveguide 4 Ohm
There is only the test capacitor and clip leads between the amp and tweeter; no inductors, no resistors, etc.
So, a 1st order. Now, if we look at the FR and Z plots, we see 5.1 Ohms at 21,000 Hz, that is -3 dB with a 1.5 uF cap. BUT, since the output is 100 dB across most of the tweeter band, I still can tell major differences. This is actually the entire point here; even a basic $20 tweeter sounds much better as we go better and better on the capacitor quality.
At 14,000 Hz we have 4.2 Ohms so that gives us -3 dB with a 2.7 uF cap. Not precise of course but good enough for this experiment.
I will keep digging for more ESA, Standard Z, I have some cross caps, CEBO, other Audyn, Solen, Gen. 1 SonicCap and others. Probably many values so I wouldn't have say every possible cap. in just one value...more later
The CSA is by far the best of these 3 choices; compared to the others, it has more detail in the entire range. The Audyn Q4 adds more lower end and the Standard Z adds more high end.
I am doing this in mono only; I have my Satori MR16 mid crossed lower than normal on purpose so it's extended high end is rolled off enough to not confuse me when listening to the tweeter.
The tweeter is a basic horn loaded silk dome; Tymphany/Peerless/Vifa model BC25SC08-04. The nice thing about the new Tymphany site is you can move your mouse along the FR SPL curve and also the impedance curve and it gives you exact values.
BC25SC08-04 - Tymphany
I am using this tweeter because it is budget priced but also has a very flat response and very high output and it rolls off nicely so there is no break up peak whatsoever.
I just now compared 1.5 uF Aluminum Z to the Superior Z. The Alum Z does have more detail than the Superior Z but the differences are not as great as say between the CSA and the Standard Z.
Peerless by Tymphany BC25SC08-04 1" Silk Dome Neodymium Tweeter with Waveguide 4 Ohm
There is only the test capacitor and clip leads between the amp and tweeter; no inductors, no resistors, etc.
So, a 1st order. Now, if we look at the FR and Z plots, we see 5.1 Ohms at 21,000 Hz, that is -3 dB with a 1.5 uF cap. BUT, since the output is 100 dB across most of the tweeter band, I still can tell major differences. This is actually the entire point here; even a basic $20 tweeter sounds much better as we go better and better on the capacitor quality.
At 14,000 Hz we have 4.2 Ohms so that gives us -3 dB with a 2.7 uF cap. Not precise of course but good enough for this experiment.
I will keep digging for more ESA, Standard Z, I have some cross caps, CEBO, other Audyn, Solen, Gen. 1 SonicCap and others. Probably many values so I wouldn't have say every possible cap. in just one value...more later
Thank you!!!!
so q4 has more bass then CSA ?, what you mean with "more low end" ?
you define CSA colder than standard z ?
i wait for ESA vs Standard z cap 🙂
so q4 has more bass then CSA ?, what you mean with "more low end" ?
you define CSA colder than standard z ?
i wait for ESA vs Standard z cap 🙂
Just found ESA 3.9 uF, Standard Z 3.9 uF and two SonicCap 2.0 uF which I connected in parallel for 4 uF. I do have a decent quality LCR meter and I am checking to be sure these are all well within tolerance of the stated capacitance values...
SonicCap Gen. 1 win this round; the Standard Z does what it did before with a completely different value, it adds to the high end. The ESA is better than the Standard Z here, better tonal balance but the SonicCap is WAY better that the other two choices here. Maybe this is not a fair test since we have 2 SC in parallel but it's the closest thing I have in this range.
I am listening to David Arnay "8"; acoustic jazz CD over and over again. This is very well recorded and I am very familiar with it. Each new song adds one new instrument...piano, drum kit, acoustic bass, sax, bass clarinet and so on...
David Arnay: 8 album review @ All About Jazz
David Arnay * Biography
SonicCap Gen. 1 win this round; the Standard Z does what it did before with a completely different value, it adds to the high end. The ESA is better than the Standard Z here, better tonal balance but the SonicCap is WAY better that the other two choices here. Maybe this is not a fair test since we have 2 SC in parallel but it's the closest thing I have in this range.
I am listening to David Arnay "8"; acoustic jazz CD over and over again. This is very well recorded and I am very familiar with it. Each new song adds one new instrument...piano, drum kit, acoustic bass, sax, bass clarinet and so on...
David Arnay: 8 album review @ All About Jazz
David Arnay * Biography
Q4 has more lower mids and the higher treble isn't as bright. The Standard Z is just the opposite, more treble and less lower mids. The CSA is balanced through the entire band of interest.
They are doing rolling black outs due to the extreme cold; just now getting back online. Many people have all electric (including furnace) so the sub-zero temps are over loading the electric grid right now!
Still digging through boxes! If you have the money; get the Aluminum Z...no question! After that, the Superior Z, after that, the CSA, after that, Sonic Cap Gen. 1 if you can find them. Then ESA, then Standard Z then Audyn Q4...so far; I'm not done yet but I think the preferred order most likely won't change...
ok for sonicCap but they cost three times the ESA 😉
regarding ESA vs Standard-z Cap could say that the esa is more full bodied and warmer than standard z cap ?
excuse me for stupid questions😱
why you set CSA under superior-z (2 times the CSA price?
what are the differences ?
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.