Is there a cure for speakeritus ?

just a guy

Member
2006-05-12 6:59 pm
Build electrostatics: you'll never want to bother with boxes again. A look at the ESL forum will restore a taste for experimenting with many new and challenging issues in sound reproduction.

B.

He builds bass horns for prosound use, Ben. It would truly be a new and exciting challenge for any ESL panel to produce the required spl to replace that bass horn; it's not even remotely feasible.

There are some things ESL's can't do which is why we have moving coil drivers and resonant type enclosures.

ESL's are ok for moderate spl listening in a living room (with the exception of your antique 1 meter square monstrosities which necessarily have massive comb filtering and lobing problems) but are not useful for much outside of midrange and up in a domestic living room setting.
 

Zero D

Member
2009-08-06 11:11 am
@ bentoronto

You need to get out of your 1960s time trap :D As good as the 60's were, in All sorts of ways ;) technology etc has moved on Greatly :)

Visit as many Real HiFi shops as you can & listen to as much stuff as you can, & hear a selection of what's available these days, & since then.

I know you most likely won't, but if you spent just a little time in a Mega Dance Club for eg, with a Very Hi quality sound system, it would blow your socks off. And i don't mean in loudness ! Of course it depends on whose DJing & what they are playing !

Another thing, if you mainly only listen to limited types of source material, you are Really missing out. Even stuff from the 60's & in some cases 50's, that were recorded well, can still sound Very good, on a good system ! But Plenty of other stuff since then can & does sound fantastic, on a GOOD system.

Also making snide remarks about other members doesn't do you Any favours :p There are people on here that know a Lot more about things, than you or me ! So it's wise to listen & learn ;)
 
Hi,

guys, make a red mark on Your calendars, as I agree with bentoronto.
Go Entity of Superior Loudspeaking and You never go back :D

ESL's are ok for moderate spl listening in a living room (with the exception of your antique 1 meter square monstrosities which necessarily have massive comb filtering and lobing problems) but are not useful for much outside of midrange and up in a domestic living room setting.
just a guy, just because You don´t know anything better doesn´t make Your words a trueth but just another uninformed opinion. :rolleyes:
Panels with SPLs above what a typical home hifi speaker can put out at THD-levels at least one order lower are easy to build.
In fact You can get the dynamics of a Horn system without all its drawbacks.
Admittedly You need to restrict to a working range >150Hz ... a ESL is no good bass.
Finding and building a partnering bass that can cope with ESL qualities, like speed, authenticity and resolution is no easy task at all.
If You do things right, You´re never going to step back to those mediocre and flawed dynamic drivers ... regardless if their membranes are made of paper or gold-pressed Latinum. ;)

jauu
Calvin
 
just a guy, just because You don´t know anything better doesn´t make Your words a trueth but just another uninformed opinion. :rolleyes:
Panels with SPLs above what a typical home hifi speaker can put out at THD-levels at least one order lower are easy to build.
In fact You can get the dynamics of a Horn system without all its drawbacks.
Admittedly You need to restrict to a working range >150Hz ... a ESL is no good bass.
Finding and building a partnering bass that can cope with ESL qualities, like speed, authenticity and resolution is no easy task at all.
If You do things right, You´re never going to step back to those mediocre and flawed dynamic drivers ... regardless if their membranes are made of paper or gold-pressed Latinum. ;)

jauu
Calvin

Ok, then educate me.

Show a link to ANY ESL design commercial or diy that can replace the bass horn shown in the first post. Remember, it needs to be able to be used for pro sound and it needs to be portable.

WRT the bolded quoted sentence, you do realize this is the subwoofer forum, right? Admittedly the bass horn in question doesn't go really low but still, it is a bass horn.
 
No one will find Calvin deficient in technical grasp!

If your interest is making nice mitered corners and veneering, then the box world is fine. But if you are intellectually adventurous and want to explore new concepts, not the place to be.

Although I have been an ESL person for many decades, the Planars and Exotics forum has many interesting paths to explore. A lot of interest in DIY magnapams, Heils, and leaf tweeters, in addition to the stalwarts building ESLs from the ground up (I spent the morning revising my 10kV ESL interface box- I don't believe there is anything using a circular saw to cut wood comparable to the thrill and even physical courage needed around serious high voltage). Even plasma driver projects show up from time to time - since there is no other driver with that kind of perfection.

Within the world of shaking-cardboard subs, much more R&D excitement in DSP and in my own interest, motional feedback (which I worked on at Bell Labs using their large anechoic chamber, long ago) as compared to one more TH. As far as deciding which port has less compression and noise and how to model 130dB signals, hardly a topic for lively minds at this time.

Ben
 
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Hi,

well I'm willing to admit that You're right about this beeing the Subwoofer forum, if You can explain to us all what "monstrosities which necessarily have massive comb filtering and lobing problems" has to do with Subwoofers in first place, especially as Horns are typically not known for small dimensions either. :cool:

jauu
Calvin

I was explaining that esl panels are not much good at frequencies outside of midrange and up. And Ben's panels, being 1 square meter, will have serious comb filter and lobing issues.

Is that clear enough?

Both you and Ben have strongly implied that esl panels are the way forward despite the picture in the first thread showing a bass horn. No esl panel can do the same job that bass horn does.
 
No one will find Calvin deficient in technical grasp!

If your interest is making nice mitered corners and veneering, then the box world is fine. But if you are intellectually adventurous and want to explore new concepts, not the place to be.

Although I have been an ESL person for many decades, the Planars and Exotics forum has many interesting paths to explore. A lot of interest in DIY magnapams, Heils, and leaf tweeters, in addition to the stalwarts building ESLs from the ground up (I spent the morning revising my 10kV ESL interface box- I don't believe there is anything using a circular saw to cut wood comparable to the thrill and even physical courage needed around serious high voltage). Even plasma driver projects show up from time to time - since there is no other driver with that kind of perfection.

Within the world of shaking-cardboard subs, much more R&D excitement in DSP and in my own interest, motional feedback (which I worked on at Bell Labs using their large anechoic chamber, long ago) as compared to one more TH. As far as deciding which port has less compression and noise and how to model 130dB signals, hardly a topic for lively minds at this time.

Ben

While it is true that there are some nice esl panels and other types of exotic speakers, none of them can play bass.

I don't care how intellectually adventurous you are, this thread is clearly about a series of bass horns that the OP has constructed for pro sound use. Suggesting that esl or any other exotic speaker type is a better solution is completely nuts, and yet another thread jack to present your personal opinions about moving coil drivers in a discussion where it doesn't have anything to do with the original topic. Maybe start your own thread to discuss these matters.