hello all,
i want to build the 108ez recommended enclosure, but a german maganzin (klang & ton) recently tested the driver and said that it is useless for hifi. the driver has nasty resonances in the mids and a 10db hole from 700hz to 2000hz.
phreaps the driver was broken? is the 108ez really that bad? if the dip is really that big, it can't be good at all.
where can i find measurements of the 108ez. i could not find that much with google.de. is someone here who has the driver and can measure the frequency response?
looking at mr. pass measurement (you can find the articel at sixmoons.com, it's called "firstwatt, an introduction to the concept") the frequency response looks fine.
:help:
lilmik
i want to build the 108ez recommended enclosure, but a german maganzin (klang & ton) recently tested the driver and said that it is useless for hifi. the driver has nasty resonances in the mids and a 10db hole from 700hz to 2000hz.
phreaps the driver was broken? is the 108ez really that bad? if the dip is really that big, it can't be good at all.
where can i find measurements of the 108ez. i could not find that much with google.de. is someone here who has the driver and can measure the frequency response?
looking at mr. pass measurement (you can find the articel at sixmoons.com, it's called "firstwatt, an introduction to the concept") the frequency response looks fine.
:help:
lilmik
I expect that klang & ton is given to hyperbole. My measurements of the FE-166 correspond VERY nicely both to Mr. Pass's and to Fostex's own measurements.
I don't see why the FE108 would be any different. Pass does show a 5db dip from 800-1500.
Note that Stereophile also tested a 108 equipped speaker. so you can find some measurements there
Sean
I don't see why the FE108 would be any different. Pass does show a 5db dip from 800-1500.
Note that Stereophile also tested a 108 equipped speaker. so you can find some measurements there
Sean
No, the Fostex FE108ESigma is not that bad. Actually, it's got one of the best mid-ranges you're ever likely to come across. Klang & Ton don't know what they are talking about if that's how they classify it. They've also come up with some complete nonsense about quarter-wave loading recently from what I hear, so I reckon the best policy would be to ignore everything they say.
This isn't just subjective opinion by the way, though plenty of people will give you their evaluation that it's one of the best drivers they've ever heard (within its limitations: let's be honest, a 4" driver is never going to be a bass-monster). As you cite yourself, Nelson Pass has measured them, likes them, and his measurements agree very well with the Fostex published data. I've heard them in a few guises, and they always sound very good, and measure well (providing they are in a properly designed enclosure). Have a look here at just one commercial example: Terry Cain's IM BEN double-horns. All $4,500 of them. Terry is not known for poor-sounding designs -I don't think he'd be using it for no good reason! http://www.cain-cain.com/IM-BEN/index.html By the way, if you haven't run across Terry before, he's a big supporter of the Fostex recommended enclosure designs they provide free on their site. Comforting to know, coming as it does from someone who produces horns like those in the above link!
Best
Scott
This isn't just subjective opinion by the way, though plenty of people will give you their evaluation that it's one of the best drivers they've ever heard (within its limitations: let's be honest, a 4" driver is never going to be a bass-monster). As you cite yourself, Nelson Pass has measured them, likes them, and his measurements agree very well with the Fostex published data. I've heard them in a few guises, and they always sound very good, and measure well (providing they are in a properly designed enclosure). Have a look here at just one commercial example: Terry Cain's IM BEN double-horns. All $4,500 of them. Terry is not known for poor-sounding designs -I don't think he'd be using it for no good reason! http://www.cain-cain.com/IM-BEN/index.html By the way, if you haven't run across Terry before, he's a big supporter of the Fostex recommended enclosure designs they provide free on their site. Comforting to know, coming as it does from someone who produces horns like those in the above link!
Best
Scott
hello again,
sorry, i made a mistake
. it was not the magazin "klang & ton", it was the german magazin "hobby hifi". they said the 108ez is unusable.
searching this fourm up and down, i found a nearfield measurement of a 108ez in an 2 liter sealed box. look at the picture. scary 😱 . on the other hand, look at the frequency response from 7000hz and upwards. i really don't think the 108ez has a frequenzy response like this.
josephjcole made the nearfield measurement. here is the thread, it is post number 6 --> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68706&highlight=
how does fostex smooth there measurements. if you use 1 octave or 1/2 octave, a small but sharp dip may disappear or look hamrless, if you smooth over 1/16 octave, it can look very bad.
greetings from germany
lilmik
sorry, i made a mistake
. it was not the magazin "klang & ton", it was the german magazin "hobby hifi". they said the 108ez is unusable.searching this fourm up and down, i found a nearfield measurement of a 108ez in an 2 liter sealed box. look at the picture. scary 😱 . on the other hand, look at the frequency response from 7000hz and upwards. i really don't think the 108ez has a frequenzy response like this.
josephjcole made the nearfield measurement. here is the thread, it is post number 6 --> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68706&highlight=
how does fostex smooth there measurements. if you use 1 octave or 1/2 octave, a small but sharp dip may disappear or look hamrless, if you smooth over 1/16 octave, it can look very bad.
greetings from germany
lilmik
Attachments
I have to distrust that measurement.
I mean, AFAIK Joe likes those drivers! (He has them in really cool potter enclosures.)
I mean, AFAIK Joe likes those drivers! (He has them in really cool potter enclosures.)
I haven't measured the 108EZ, but there's no way
that it has that dip. It's an enclosure or measurement
artifact.
that it has that dip. It's an enclosure or measurement
artifact.
LilMik said:
That is an issue
UNsmoothed responcse of my kestrel hotrods look better than my FE166 horns. smooth them a little and they look comparable from 70hz up.
NO one that has listened thinks the kestrels sound better from 70hz up. Thats why they are in the hobby room and the fostexes in the main room.
Sean
Sorry, I don't buy that graph at all. Could be anything, but I've never seen or heard a 108 with a giganitic hole like that.
So it wasn't K&T, but Hobby Hifi? Yet another nail in the coffin of German hifi magazines then. They'll be getting as bad as the UK mags next.
Scott
So it wasn't K&T, but Hobby Hifi? Yet another nail in the coffin of German hifi magazines then. They'll be getting as bad as the UK mags next.
Scott
JX92S is the only driver I know of the size that's comprehensively better. But then, it should be: a) Ted Jordan designed it, and B) it's about 3 times the price. The Tang Bands? The problem with Tang Band is that they are very inconsistant. Their current 4" bamboo cone job (the higher priced one) is supposed to be excellent, probably the equal of the Fostex in some ways, and beats it in the bass (looks good too), but they keep chopping and changing about, and not all of their drivers are of the same quality. Anyone want to take a bet that it's replacement will be inferior to the current version? Damning with faint praise: I love the magnet on those things and have a pair on order for some TQWTs I'm planning.
Best
Scott
Best
Scott
I was shaking my head, reading this article in Hobby HiFi!
In the same article, they want you to make believe, that the Visaton FRS8 for only 12 Euro is a fine speaker.
And for my experience: this driver is not a HiFi speaker, imho!
Franz
In the same article, they want you to make believe, that the Visaton FRS8 for only 12 Euro is a fine speaker.
And for my experience: this driver is not a HiFi speaker, imho!
Franz
Nelson Pass said:
It's a near-field measurement. It cannot be trusted above a couple hundred Hertz. It would be much more interesting to see one or two meter results.
Franz G said:
Are those enclosures based on the Fostex Factory design for the earlier non 'E' Sigma? I like.
Best
Scott
No, this is a patented german speaker. You may have a look at:
http://www.cornu.de
an interesting inside view here:
http://www.cornu.de/minispir_t.html
You can find the patent description online, in pdf format, but the server seems not to be up and running actually.
Go to http://www.depatisnet.de
Click on "Recherche"
Click on "Einsteiger"
Type in "Erfinder" daniel ciesinger
Type in "Suche im Volltext" "planare führung"
and you'll find it, looking for the PDF-button.
Franz
The HobbyHiFi magazine is salesman of kits of the published designs. For that reason it is bound to the loudspeakers that sell and Fostex is not among them. It is a campaign to discredit the rival.
When Bernd Timmermanns was in Klang&Ton was an honest person.
This is a graph of the Fostex FE108EZ horn box.
When Bernd Timmermanns was in Klang&Ton was an honest person.
This is a graph of the Fostex FE108EZ horn box.
Attachments
Greetings,
according to the HobbyHifi-website the measurements are made in a 6m x 6m x 6m room at a distance of 1m. The drivers are placed on the ground, which gives a 6m x 6m baffle. Below the driver there's a 1000 liters of space. Measurement distance is 1m, voltage is 2.87V.
Source: http://www.hobbyhifi.de/Aktuell/Messtechnik/Messraum/messraum.html
Cheers, Elam
according to the HobbyHifi-website the measurements are made in a 6m x 6m x 6m room at a distance of 1m. The drivers are placed on the ground, which gives a 6m x 6m baffle. Below the driver there's a 1000 liters of space. Measurement distance is 1m, voltage is 2.87V.
Source: http://www.hobbyhifi.de/Aktuell/Messtechnik/Messraum/messraum.html
Cheers, Elam
Hi Franz G
Franz G
In the forun you said The FE108E Sigma is a fine speaker in the cornu spiral horns! I attach fronthorns.....
I have the Fostex FE108EZ recomended box and I like attach fronthorns.
You can supply some information about your front horns? You have a drawing?
Best regards Jaime
I like this japanese horn very much
Franz G
In the forun you said The FE108E Sigma is a fine speaker in the cornu spiral horns! I attach fronthorns.....
I have the Fostex FE108EZ recomended box and I like attach fronthorns.
You can supply some information about your front horns? You have a drawing?
Best regards Jaime
I like this japanese horn very much
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