Agreed that it is one of the compromises, not one that I would choose. I did however work to move the woofer and waveguide as close as possible, even cutting the woofer rin into the waveguide edge.
Ironicaly higher DI makes more sense in a domestic room ( untreated for Early Reflections management).
In a control room it'll depend: the 'top notch' room's of the moment are T.Jouanjean's ( Northward Acoustic) F-T-B design ( Front to back). They are evolution of Hidley's 'Non Environement 'design and they implement them with ATC monitors which are not high DI ( but constant over a wide range).
They enable the ATC to sound very nice indeed, i've heard one of this room and i've been seated for two years daily in front of SCM110A some years ago... and they are not my preference, as the Non Environement i've heard is not too.
FTB take into account the fact there is humans in the room ( the diffusion used makes them way less oppressive long term than Hidley's room).
It's all in the compromise made: room/ loudspeakers seen as a whole.
As long as hobbyist won't understand this...
In a control room it'll depend: the 'top notch' room's of the moment are T.Jouanjean's ( Northward Acoustic) F-T-B design ( Front to back). They are evolution of Hidley's 'Non Environement 'design and they implement them with ATC monitors which are not high DI ( but constant over a wide range).
They enable the ATC to sound very nice indeed, i've heard one of this room and i've been seated for two years daily in front of SCM110A some years ago... and they are not my preference, as the Non Environement i've heard is not too.
FTB take into account the fact there is humans in the room ( the diffusion used makes them way less oppressive long term than Hidley's room).
It's all in the compromise made: room/ loudspeakers seen as a whole.
As long as hobbyist won't understand this...
I view a lot of speakers like that - a sauce - not to my liking. I prefer a colorless speaker - no sauce.
I wholeheartedly agree. The rooms that I design are all on the very small home listening rooms size. In a more optimal sized room that is well designed I am sure that a lower DI could work just fine. I had a basically fixed room design and worked with that. It's a very common layout.
As a long time hobbyist I have learned this but being a no-name, fellows hardly ever took notice to what I have to say about this relationship room/loudspeakers. Instead they focused on fancy power cables or overclockers.. while their room plays havoc
/ rantmode off
Second thought.. yes I care about others I wish them the best, but it will not always be understood.
My comment was not about selfishness. It wasn't delicate.
Let's words it differently: i see all this as a journey and as such it's an intimate path. Some things can only be felt when experienced: you can try to spread the word on something important to you, if others havent experienced it you'll scream into space.
Let's words it differently: i see all this as a journey and as such it's an intimate path. Some things can only be felt when experienced: you can try to spread the word on something important to you, if others havent experienced it you'll scream into space.
It's not really appropriate or relevant to compare the 'conditions' of an average studio to an average living room imo.
That's not to say you can't use studio monitors for casual listening in a living room.
Unless you live in a glass house without absorbent furniture/upholstery, room treatment can quickly turn into a never-ending story.
I think if we had a way to compare our IR to a perfect one and say our IR is X percent the shape of a perfect impulse we would find trends.
The sharpest IR would obviously exist in anechoic conditions with a "perfect" playback system
Studio/Control/Theater room IR's would be among the consistently sharpest of echoic conditions
Hifi/hobbyist/music lover rooms would land all over as many people have various goals for their acoustics.
The sharpest IR would obviously exist in anechoic conditions with a "perfect" playback system
Studio/Control/Theater room IR's would be among the consistently sharpest of echoic conditions
Hifi/hobbyist/music lover rooms would land all over as many people have various goals for their acoustics.
High Di makes the room sound bigger by lowering room energy just as the path length of reflections reduce spl in a literally spacious room.
Imaging is really just another form of clarity
"Naturalness" in my view/experience is strongly related to the material composition of the drivers.
This is also one reason why there are so many enthusiasts of vintage loudspeakers. The authenticity/credibility in the reproduction of acoustic instruments in particular is not necessarily better with modern systems.
I was more specifically referring to spatial cues in the reproduction versus the source.
As for DI, my preference probably falls somewhere between Dr. Geddes and yours.
Max. SPL of 119dB is specified (and even 121 dB for the s-version), which in reality is considerably lower - primarily due to the limitations of the woofers and the cardiod principle, according to the measurements of Prof. Dr. Anselm Goertz:
Ripple: 2.3dB (100Hz - 10kHz)
Opening angle: 140 degrees (-6 dB Iso 1 kHz - 10 kHz)
STDEV (Standard Deviation): 9 degrees (-6dB Iso 1kHz - 10kHz)
ver. opening angle: 95 degrees (-6 dB Iso 1 kHz - 10 kHz)
ver. ST DEF: 28 degrees (-6 dB Iso 1 kHz – 10 kHz)
max. usable output: 107 dB (3% THD 100 Hz – 10 kHz)
Bass suitability: 98 (92*) dB (10% THD 50 – 100 Hz)
Maximum level at 1 m (free field) with EIA-426B signal at full scale: 93 dB(A) Leq and 108 dB Lpk.
Evidently, it all depends on the quality of the source material.
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Spatial cues in the reproduction and not the source? In my opinion, spacial cues in the playback system are a distortion to the source which already has them in an anechoic environment.
I would guess that Listening to a stereo, in an anechoic chamber would sound perfectly fine, like headphones but better.
When I think system related spacial cues, I think; theres a speaker 3 ft to the left of me, theres a wall with a diffuser 6ft on both sides of me, theres a wall 6ft in front of me, that is heavily damped with rockwool...the room is a passive system reacting to the signal its being feed with poor linear response.
Everything sounds like what it is. If we move the room and speaker out of the way we give our imagination a chance embrace the recorded, manicured source signal. It doesn't have to be "Anechoic Chamber" out of the way either.... how much out of the way? Just enough
If practically dampening a room to something near the rt60 expected in a mastering room is too much... you simply do not, like the recording or have a preference for more room than the recordings you listen to have in them already...
In the direct to indirect sound ratio.... the more room, the more it sounds like your room. You may have a nice sounding room that is still lively while but it will impart color on everything you listen to.
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Yep. Me too.
If it wasn't clear, I was making fun of omnis....
I do think omnis have their place,.....parties...pure background music, etc...(and per previous sauce jest, making bad tracks sound passable)
......and can be quite enjoyable for such uses...
But past that ..... uh uh