Hello!
This is my first message in this forum! I'm here to learn from those who know. So I guess I'm in the correct place
I would like to explain a little bit the background before I get into details.
I mainly listen to music on vinyl. I normally listen to rock from the 70-80s, jazz/blues and also newer electronic music.
I have a pair of JBL LSR308 bi-amplified monitors. I don't like very much how they sound, it's not natural. It's like there's too much directivity difference between the tweeter and the woofer, and it lacks something on the middle frequencies... I don't know how to explain this in words, but it's like I can feel the HF and LF of an instrument not coming from the same point... It's quite bizarre.
Once I had an opportunity to listen to a pair of Tannoy 10 DMT II. Those are coaxial's 10" speakers. Very high-end and with a prohibitive price, even a second hand pair. But WOW, how they sounded! Awesome imaging, closing my eyes I could feel all the group playing in front of me!
I searched for coaxials speakers, but I found that they don't go down very low in frequencies, and they are quite expensive too.
Then I thought about the full range speakers. I saw the FE206 from Fostex, but I have no place in my appartment to build and place such a big back loaded horn-speaker (they're also not very girlfriend firendly, too).
But then I discovered the serie of Full Range speakers from Fostex specially designed for Bass Reflex enclosures.
I thought about buying two Fostex FF165WK.
I would build the recommended enclosure (simple bass reflex type) listed on the Fostex website. Something like this.
What I'm looking for it's an speaker with good imaging and detailed natural sound.
It's not important if there's not a high deep-bass response. I live in a small appartment so I normally listen to music in a "neighbour friendly" volume mode.
Any experiences on that Fostex speaker?
Would you build another type of enclosure? What about a fonken-type enclosure?
It'd be my first DIY speaker, so I'm searching something not too complicated to start.
Thanks!
This is my first message in this forum! I'm here to learn from those who know. So I guess I'm in the correct place
I would like to explain a little bit the background before I get into details.
I mainly listen to music on vinyl. I normally listen to rock from the 70-80s, jazz/blues and also newer electronic music.
I have a pair of JBL LSR308 bi-amplified monitors. I don't like very much how they sound, it's not natural. It's like there's too much directivity difference between the tweeter and the woofer, and it lacks something on the middle frequencies... I don't know how to explain this in words, but it's like I can feel the HF and LF of an instrument not coming from the same point... It's quite bizarre.
Once I had an opportunity to listen to a pair of Tannoy 10 DMT II. Those are coaxial's 10" speakers. Very high-end and with a prohibitive price, even a second hand pair. But WOW, how they sounded!
Awesome imaging, closing my eyes I could feel all the group playing in front of me!I searched for coaxials speakers, but I found that they don't go down very low in frequencies, and they are quite expensive too.
Then I thought about the full range speakers. I saw the FE206 from Fostex, but I have no place in my appartment to build and place such a big back loaded horn-speaker (they're also not very girlfriend firendly, too
).But then I discovered the serie of Full Range speakers from Fostex specially designed for Bass Reflex enclosures.
I thought about buying two Fostex FF165WK.
I would build the recommended enclosure (simple bass reflex type) listed on the Fostex website. Something like this.
What I'm looking for it's an speaker with good imaging and detailed natural sound.
It's not important if there's not a high deep-bass response. I live in a small appartment so I normally listen to music in a "neighbour friendly" volume mode
.Any experiences on that Fostex speaker?
Would you build another type of enclosure? What about a fonken-type enclosure?
It'd be my first DIY speaker, so I'm searching something not too complicated to start.
Thanks!
Maybe...comparing anything other than the one you own, and start rambling into those vague speaker configurations is problematic.
I mean, the LSR 308 says:
Bi-amplified Studio Monitor with Magnetically-Shielded8” Low Frequency Transducer and 1” Soft-Dome High Frequency Transducer and Image Control Wave Guide. Class-D 56 Watt RMS Amplifier for LF, and 56 Watt RMS Amplifier for HF. Balanced XLR and ¼” TRS Inputs with Detented Level Control, HF and LF Trim Controls
What about, if not a 3 way, a good 2 way ? A straight two way...with woofer, tweeter and crossover !
Just an unbalanced input amplifier in the 20-50 W range
I mean, a classic integrated...ohhh, that's OT
I mean, the LSR 308 says:
Bi-amplified Studio Monitor with Magnetically-Shielded
8” Low Frequency Transducer and 1” Soft-Dome High Frequency Transducer and Image Control Wave Guide. Class-D 56 Watt RMS Amplifier for LF, and 56 Watt RMS Amplifier for HF. Balanced XLR and ¼” TRS Inputs with Detented Level Control, HF and LF Trim ControlsWhat about, if not a 3 way, a good 2 way ? A straight two way...with woofer, tweeter and crossover !
Just an unbalanced input amplifier in the 20-50 W range
I mean, a classic integrated...ohhh, that's OT
Hello tipex, and welcome to the club.
Like you, there are a great many of us with flawed hearing. Some call it 'Golden Ears'. I call it a curse. I am overly sensitive to intermodulation distortion.
You may be hearing phase problems. A great many here will tell you 'phase' problems can't be heard. They can't hear it, so they try to tell us it doesn't exist. But some of us can hear it.
Option A is a full range crossover-less driver.
Option B is Jeff Bagleys quasi second order series crossover. Search for it.
A great many will tell you Jeff's crossover requires careful selection of drivers. I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, so I would just choose the appropriate drivers.
Private message me to continue a discussion.
Like you, there are a great many of us with flawed hearing. Some call it 'Golden Ears'. I call it a curse. I am overly sensitive to intermodulation distortion.
You may be hearing phase problems. A great many here will tell you 'phase' problems can't be heard. They can't hear it, so they try to tell us it doesn't exist. But some of us can hear it.
Option A is a full range crossover-less driver.
Option B is Jeff Bagleys quasi second order series crossover. Search for it.
A great many will tell you Jeff's crossover requires careful selection of drivers. I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, so I would just choose the appropriate drivers.
Private message me to continue a discussion.
Whatever your issues with the JBL 308s it is probably not the directivity which has been described as 'smooth', 'perfect' and even 'god-like'. The JBL LSRs have completely rewritten the rule book on cheap speakers, some have compared them favourably to similar sized Neumanns which cost an extra £700 per pair.
I too am sensitive to IM distortion which is why after some experiments I will never again use full-range drivers as they maximise IM, have added a woofer to my 12" Tannoy DCs and am generally wary of 2ways unless they are tiny, bass-free bookshelf jobs..
I too am sensitive to IM distortion which is why after some experiments I will never again use full-range drivers as they maximise IM, have added a woofer to my 12" Tannoy DCs and am generally wary of 2ways unless they are tiny, bass-free bookshelf jobs..
Not just phase-problems. Other materials, different times, different directions, different amps, different psus (channel-separated), different ... sooo much more, that sound ugly. A two way active speaker is a "pick up of differences", a collection of uncleanness, of un-homogenity (the most misinterpret more sound to counter a rumbling roaring grey flat sounding wooden multiway speaker as a better, cleaner sound - in my mind;-). A three-way would be much more terrible.
In my mind a compact fullrange is a superb choice. Good stands, some regardings in build, NO crossover - to tune the driver is much better... Use a good amp, a se, and you will be happy;-)))
In my mind a compact fullrange is a superb choice. Good stands, some regardings in build, NO crossover - to tune the driver is much better... Use a good amp, a se, and you will be happy;-)))
I had the LSR305's and did not like how the mid range lacked depth and power. The tweeter has a nice waveguide and is broad uniform directivity, but the range from 300Hz to 1700Hz where the tweeter takes over felt anemic compared to my 10F/RS225 FAST speaker where the mids were provided by the venerable ScanSpeak 10F/8424 from 450Hz on up. Part of the problem may also be the integrated DSP/class D all in one chip employed to do the XO - which is a 4th order LR with a large phase wrap at the XO point.
A good FAST will not have much intermodulation distortion as the full range is high passed and protected from deep excursions. Implementing a FAST with a first order XO or a transient perfect higher order XO will improve realsim of percussion immensely.
Look at Harsch XO and try to use that if possible. Here are some ways that I managed to make the FAST work well.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/273524-10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-ref-monitor.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/280331-fr58ex-ac130f1-micro-fast.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/277691-s-harsch-xo.html
A good FAST will not have much intermodulation distortion as the full range is high passed and protected from deep excursions. Implementing a FAST with a first order XO or a transient perfect higher order XO will improve realsim of percussion immensely.
Look at Harsch XO and try to use that if possible. Here are some ways that I managed to make the FAST work well.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/273524-10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-ref-monitor.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/280331-fr58ex-ac130f1-micro-fast.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/277691-s-harsch-xo.html
short answer to the leading question would I think be "maybe, but only you can answer that"
Not all FR drivers or enclosure designs are created equal, and xrk makes an excellent point about "FAST" systems, which are for the most part really just 2-ways is low crossover points.
As to the question of Fostex FF165WK - nice enough, but I'd also recommend you consider Alpair 10 -either P(aper) or .3 (metal) - one of the better bang for the buck all 'round full range drivers I've heard.
Not all FR drivers or enclosure designs are created equal, and xrk makes an excellent point about "FAST" systems, which are for the most part really just 2-ways is low crossover points.
As to the question of Fostex FF165WK - nice enough, but I'd also recommend you consider Alpair 10 -either P(aper) or .3 (metal) - one of the better bang for the buck all 'round full range drivers I've heard.
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= point source=no big speakers ( woofers)=the easiest way to obtain it is the small FR
All good suggestions.
I'll add this:
If you want to test the waters with DIYing your own enclosures and a feel of full range that souns good, Maybe start with something easy and not too expensive.
One of the easiest build I have done is the TABAQ. A good 3 or 4 inch driver from TB or the P830986.
Enclosure is very easy to assemble, and the end result is far more than the amount of work put into the build. They go down to about 55Hz, so even light electronic will sound good and punchy.
I'll add this:
If you want to test the waters with DIYing your own enclosures and a feel of full range that souns good, Maybe start with something easy and not too expensive.
One of the easiest build I have done is the TABAQ. A good 3 or 4 inch driver from TB or the P830986.
Enclosure is very easy to assemble, and the end result is far more than the amount of work put into the build. They go down to about 55Hz, so even light electronic will sound good and punchy.
We put our FF165wKeN into Frugel-Horn XL where it is excellent. I am also working on a number of different Fonkens for them.
After our experiences with them i always look closely at the Fostex recommended designs. They tend to range from OK to poor.
FF165wk likes 10-20 litres or so for a reflex enclosure.
dave
After our experiences with them i always look closely at the Fostex recommended designs. They tend to range from OK to poor.
FF165wk likes 10-20 litres or so for a reflex enclosure.
dave
Why I do prefer compact designs, not a floorstanding speaker:
Reflections and resonances there, where they have not to be. And not a "linear" frequency-response,-) At the sides too!
Better build little fronts, build (big volumes) in depth. To hide the lot of problems at the backside of the driver. Ports at the bottom - cleanest -, or front - lively -, or at the side - wider -, or backside - broken or big deep background -, or at the top - dusty,-)
Regard the stands.
If floorstand (many horns, as example), than cover with fabric or other damping material.
Reflections and resonances there, where they have not to be. And not a "linear" frequency-response,-) At the sides too!
Better build little fronts, build (big volumes) in depth. To hide the lot of problems at the backside of the driver. Ports at the bottom - cleanest -, or front - lively -, or at the side - wider -, or backside - broken or big deep background -, or at the top - dusty,-)
Regard the stands.
If floorstand (many horns, as example), than cover with fabric or other damping material.
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