In wall presentation never really gives you the 3D sound field for the obvious…..it’s a 2D system. Time and phase delays created behind the baffle never develop and the wall itself is ‘illuminated‘ as it mitigates diffraction over a large area. For true stereo imaging, this is the worst case scenario, but for phase clarity which preserves detail, it’s the best scenario. Systems like this or soffit mount are often used in studio mix engineering systems on a smaller scale where preserving phase detail are desired.
Immersive audio if it can solidify any resemblance of a home standard might make multi in wall systems work as engineers can effectively mix and master in the dimensionality through time based processing and multi channel object processing. Problem is that’s already been screwed up by the headphone application and techs belief in personal portable full time VR.……there’s already hoards of narcissists walking around LA with goggles on…..same folks who popularized the whole sunglasses at night movement.
Nevermind me….i’m rambling. Point is….no matter how many expensive drivers you stick in the wall, a free standing stereo pair will always be preferred by listeners.
Immersive audio if it can solidify any resemblance of a home standard might make multi in wall systems work as engineers can effectively mix and master in the dimensionality through time based processing and multi channel object processing. Problem is that’s already been screwed up by the headphone application and techs belief in personal portable full time VR.……there’s already hoards of narcissists walking around LA with goggles on…..same folks who popularized the whole sunglasses at night movement.
Nevermind me….i’m rambling. Point is….no matter how many expensive drivers you stick in the wall, a free standing stereo pair will always be preferred by listeners.
Some interesting experiences here:
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/thr...-soundstage-as-speakers-in-free-space.265459/
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/thr...-soundstage-as-speakers-in-free-space.265459/
Btw - the HRTF of the center channel has a deep dip around 8kHz so any linear speaker at the center position will not sound as a real physical sound source!
Our ears use such a FR deviation as a clue for deciding if a sound comes from direct behind or direct in front , where the delay is the same for both ears .
We should realise ears are NEVER planned for such thing as "linear freq resp"
In fact , funnily , people think if a speaker is linear then what they hear must also be linear !!!!!!
NO , not at all !!
Our brain/head/pinnae etc is so much adopted to that naturally coloured sound (HRTF) that "he/she" only thinks it is linear !!!!!
So we can conclude , what we hear is coloured , it is hardwired into our body!
The imagination that a linear response should also sound linear is just deceiving and an impression of your helpless brain!
The equal loudness curves are showing this , but we humans love to see a flat response because it gives us a better feel about the situation , aren't we the masters of the universe 🙂
Our ears use such a FR deviation as a clue for deciding if a sound comes from direct behind or direct in front , where the delay is the same for both ears .
We should realise ears are NEVER planned for such thing as "linear freq resp"
In fact , funnily , people think if a speaker is linear then what they hear must also be linear !!!!!!
NO , not at all !!
Our brain/head/pinnae etc is so much adopted to that naturally coloured sound (HRTF) that "he/she" only thinks it is linear !!!!!
So we can conclude , what we hear is coloured , it is hardwired into our body!
The imagination that a linear response should also sound linear is just deceiving and an impression of your helpless brain!
The equal loudness curves are showing this , but we humans love to see a flat response because it gives us a better feel about the situation , aren't we the masters of the universe 🙂
^^^^THIS^^^^
Except there is no probably about it. What the eyes tell the brain always takes precedence over what the ears tell it.
If you got your speaker on or in wall as long as you look at them or the wall your brain will always erase any depth perception (of sound). Close them and the depth will come back.
Yes, play a movie that's captivating and you'll forget the definition of 'depth perception' (whatever that is) !!!
Look at a picture with one eye only and get 2/3 of full, real depth; look with both eyes and get no depth because zero parallax.
I have a dedicated listeningroom today with this system. It has splendid depth in the soundstage (beryllium in the horn). Thats my reference. I ask because i will move to an appartement within two years and try to learn as much as possible about inwall installations. My wife has «approved» that 🤭. So my goal is to build an all out inwall system.
Geddes/HOM : No one talks about Higher Order Modes in Horns anymore !?
And the horn , mech. coupled to the driver , reminds me of a badly designed DML speaker 🙁
And the horn , mech. coupled to the driver , reminds me of a badly designed DML speaker 🙁
Nice 👍 Can’t you just build that system into a new false wall?
Many don't look at a horn and see it's been designed badly here, here and here.. HOM examination defines design choices and the quality and character of the device. Many simply see it as a yes or no concern, or not at all.
This is not the only acoustic issue where conversation reverts to decades past once the issue falls out of sight.
Nonsense!
Place a pair of speakers 2-3ft out into the room and the imaging difference to an in/on wall application is massive…..and if the free standing speaker’s baffle is narrow, the difference becomes even more extreme.
Yes….due to the even output of the phase response of the in wall system, detail clarity is better…all else being equal……but the stereo separation is extreme and the the sound field is dead.
Room contribution can be minimal if done right, but that potentially means imaging is unimpeded by the room, which can be a good thing.
HOM should also be considered for non horn speakers. But for some reason a few very loud people on this forum does not want to hear about HOM, and try to mute anyone who points out anything HOM related.
This is not a system it is a giant headphone where you can walk and take a place anywhere 🙂
choose your poison
My listening experience.
Once did a in wall two way system with coaxial tweeter which could be tilted into any direction by some degrees.
Extra bought it because wanted the tweeters pointing at listening position.
It was desastrous because reverberant sound field from the sides collapsed. Quickly put the tweeter playing straight again.
Everything was fine then
For in wall mount maybe damping around mids and tweeters can bring depth back
Once did a in wall two way system with coaxial tweeter which could be tilted into any direction by some degrees.
Extra bought it because wanted the tweeters pointing at listening position.
It was desastrous because reverberant sound field from the sides collapsed. Quickly put the tweeter playing straight again.
Everything was fine then
For in wall mount maybe damping around mids and tweeters can bring depth back