Chris, Meitner's stuff is PFC switcher material, so it's not a transformer issue. Black Gates and teflon capacitors do wonders, I've found.
The power line is indeed a nasty source of audible garbage. Better still it can be demonstrated. High frequnecy hash, particularly in what are essentially unregulated tube type supplies, can ride right through.
Wall plates; plastic, stainless, diamagnetic wood, or otherwise... are not, however, power conditioners.
Now if someone wants to come up with 2" thick ferrite wall plate... then we'll talk.
Wall plates; plastic, stainless, diamagnetic wood, or otherwise... are not, however, power conditioners.
Now if someone wants to come up with 2" thick ferrite wall plate... then we'll talk.
analog_sa said:
My oh my ... where were you during the infamous Cable Directivity Experiment ? Just the person we needed, not the wooses that found their way out through obfuscation.
There are enough people putting down real $$$ on the table for golden eared ones I'm really surprised noone yet took the prize in cable hearing test ... if you are really such an altruist not to take the easy money, just take it and give it to nearby homeless kid. South Africa if full of them.
Bratislav
Hi Tom,
Okay, use to his old stuff. When the switching element is on, "stuff" is passed straight through. There is always the opportunity of filtering before the switcher (your line conditioner). Then again after.
As poobah pointed out, higher frequency stuff can ride right through and cause trouble with all kinds of supplies types. Capacitive coupling is one way.
I am a big fan of 60 Hz transformers (in North America), not wide band types that are even worse for admitting everything. Electrostatic shields help here as well. I like EI core transformers. A lot.
-Chris
Okay, use to his old stuff. When the switching element is on, "stuff" is passed straight through. There is always the opportunity of filtering before the switcher (your line conditioner). Then again after.
As poobah pointed out, higher frequency stuff can ride right through and cause trouble with all kinds of supplies types. Capacitive coupling is one way.
I am a big fan of 60 Hz transformers (in North America), not wide band types that are even worse for admitting everything. Electrostatic shields help here as well. I like EI core transformers. A lot.
-Chris
oops
I don't seem to be able find the edit button to mash. I goofed above, meant to thank Serengetiplains, instead of Anantech, and might have sounded sarcastic, which was not my intent at all. My apologies, Anantech.
Your comments about your days in audio sales were interesting, and the direction that things took after you left hasn't helped the credibility of the aftermarket sales manufacturers.
And I certainly agree about interwinding transformer shields. I designed 1-6 kVA C-Core tape wound transformers, and capacitive coupling certainly is an issue. In this case, the amplifiers used rail switching, so the shield was needed even more to prevent transmitting switching spikes back to the line.
I don't seem to be able find the edit button to mash. I goofed above, meant to thank Serengetiplains, instead of Anantech, and might have sounded sarcastic, which was not my intent at all. My apologies, Anantech.
Your comments about your days in audio sales were interesting, and the direction that things took after you left hasn't helped the credibility of the aftermarket sales manufacturers.
And I certainly agree about interwinding transformer shields. I designed 1-6 kVA C-Core tape wound transformers, and capacitive coupling certainly is an issue. In this case, the amplifiers used rail switching, so the shield was needed even more to prevent transmitting switching spikes back to the line.
Hi Curmudgeon,
No offense taken. I thought you were commenting on the post by Serengetiplains.
I went to service support completely after I became disgusted with sales and marketing. So now I had to try and steer people right after the fact. Salesmanship has become a complete joke for the most part.
I agree with you on the transformer. It's the first line of defense in both directions.
-Chris
No offense taken. I thought you were commenting on the post by Serengetiplains.
I went to service support completely after I became disgusted with sales and marketing. So now I had to try and steer people right after the fact. Salesmanship has become a complete joke for the most part.
I agree with you on the transformer. It's the first line of defense in both directions.
-Chris
anatech said:
Great post. Too often professional designs are considered immune from the constraints of production techniques, limitations in expertise, the demands of the marketing and accounting departments, parts availability, and the dozens of other little roadblocks to an optimum design. The end result is then held up as an example of why these little things don't matter since 'the pros ignore them.'
A ref's job is a hard one
I did not think you would even bother to comment but your decission not to post is no surprise. Just do your job it's an important job and you need to rise above petty things. People depend upon you to be fair and unbiased if you are many will benefit from this forum. Your position is similar to that of a ref in a hockey game. It's ok to let a call slip but if so you need to be fair and let the same call slip for the other team. I fear your sence of ballance is biased to the old boys team. Just my thoughts. Moray James.
I did not think you would even bother to comment but your decission not to post is no surprise. Just do your job it's an important job and you need to rise above petty things. People depend upon you to be fair and unbiased if you are many will benefit from this forum. Your position is similar to that of a ref in a hockey game. It's ok to let a call slip but if so you need to be fair and let the same call slip for the other team. I fear your sence of ballance is biased to the old boys team. Just my thoughts. Moray James.
For users of unshielded interconnects. Try this experiment.
Take a turntable, any turntable.
Connect it with unshielded interconnects
Make sure they are well connected including the ground strap.
Turn on amp ....and enjoy the buzz.
There is a reason inter-connects are shielded. With high level sources such as CD the noise is just further below the relative level.
The reply to view ratio is starting to slip at 4.11%
Cheers
Take a turntable, any turntable.
Connect it with unshielded interconnects
Make sure they are well connected including the ground strap.
Turn on amp ....and enjoy the buzz.
There is a reason inter-connects are shielded. With high level sources such as CD the noise is just further below the relative level.
The reply to view ratio is starting to slip at 4.11%
Cheers
Bratislav said:
I think thre basic misconception is that people think there is a straight wire from ears to concious perception. There isn't. Millions of years of evolution has given us an exquisite system of sensory perception and INTERPRETATION that is completely integrated. For instance, did you know that the brain, in anticipation of a certain tone or a certain color, actually tweaks the input system and ups the gain for those channels where the expected sound or color is coming through, and attenuates the gain of adjacent channels, to maximise the chance that the expected sound is heard or color is seen?
Every perception event can be seen as a 'landscape' state of the brain that includes contributions from sound, sight, smell, etc, and a thing called body state. The body state is that complex datum consisting of how you feel, tired, excited, nervous, hungry, etc.
Another simple example: if your friend/wife/partneris late to go to that party, sometimes you just let it go, other times you are irritated and start a scene. Whats the objective difference? I mean, he/she was late both times. Well, most probably the difference was your body state.
This is only a very short and incomplete description but it is all documented in for instance neural research, phsychology and other science types. And what do you know, when serious audio people do controlled tests, they find results that neatly match these findings.
The human being is a wonderfull piece of engineering. Saying that you hear just with your ears is grossly unfair.
Jan Didden
Hi Jan,
An excellent point, and one that is largely ignored by the golden ears crowd. If our brain didn't filter out what we see and hear I think we'd go nuts.
Listening over a longer period would give us an honest "I like or dislike that". Possibly with some specifics. That is unless the difference is gross, in which case I have found everyone agrees quickly.
-Chris
An excellent point, and one that is largely ignored by the golden ears crowd. If our brain didn't filter out what we see and hear I think we'd go nuts.
Listening over a longer period would give us an honest "I like or dislike that". Possibly with some specifics. That is unless the difference is gross, in which case I have found everyone agrees quickly.
-Chris
A good example of the way our brain fools us constantly can be seen in vision. Our colour sense only applies to the middle 25% of the field of view. Yet our brain makes up the rest to seem as if everything we see is in colour. It guesses the rest...😉
Hi moamps,
The noise floor is lower if you are using a crystal cartridge 😉 Just kidding!
You are lucky you can get away with that. EMI is too high here for me. Most people would notice a drop in hum, or at least a drop in the noise floor.
-Chris
The noise floor is lower if you are using a crystal cartridge 😉 Just kidding!
You are lucky you can get away with that. EMI is too high here for me. Most people would notice a drop in hum, or at least a drop in the noise floor.
-Chris
anatech said:
Unfortunately, it's not mine. The picture is taken from this year's Triode Festival. The boys must be deaf? Or driving under the influence? SY would know.
😀
Regards,
Milan
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