I've got no disagreement with the ferrofluid changing over time and especially with heating.
Odeon, I think you did say that Meyer manufactured the driver.
The entire situation with the patent and the production of the driver is a puzzlement to me, and has been for a long time. I'd try to ask John Meyer, but I doubt he would give me a straight answer. Maybe someone who knew him well might get at the truth. Makes little sense to me.
There are two Meyer patents involving this driver/technology.
Just speculating, perhaps he wanted Yamaha to sell him the drivers, and they refused, so he realized they did not have a USA patent, went and applied for one - of course you can't patent something that is already being sold in the public domain, so he patented an aspect that existed but was not explicitly covered - and then went back to Yamaha and gave them a reason to exclusively sell to him? Just a guess, reasonably wild one.
But Odeon, dear friend, please comment on the WE555 driver? 😀
Odeon, I think you did say that Meyer manufactured the driver.
The entire situation with the patent and the production of the driver is a puzzlement to me, and has been for a long time. I'd try to ask John Meyer, but I doubt he would give me a straight answer. Maybe someone who knew him well might get at the truth. Makes little sense to me.
There are two Meyer patents involving this driver/technology.
Just speculating, perhaps he wanted Yamaha to sell him the drivers, and they refused, so he realized they did not have a USA patent, went and applied for one - of course you can't patent something that is already being sold in the public domain, so he patented an aspect that existed but was not explicitly covered - and then went back to Yamaha and gave them a reason to exclusively sell to him? Just a guess, reasonably wild one.
But Odeon, dear friend, please comment on the WE555 driver? 😀
Meyer never intended to produce the driver, or "push Yamaha out", the patent was intended to prevent others from doing the modifications they described, or Yamaha to employ those modifications without paying Meyers a licensing fee.
Apogee (nicknamed "Apology") speakers, a close competitor of Meyers back in those days, also modified existing drivers, though they used EV drivers.
Oh yes, just to be clear, I never found ferrofluid in any of these drivers. So, when I was originally working with them, I did a few basic mods, and did up one with ferrofluid. Now that I am thinking of it, I am not even sure what became of that driver! Ooops.
I bought a few lots of them, and selected (matched) and sold a handful to offset the costs, back-in-the-day. This is back almost 20 years now. It was never a "product" or of many units. I had to pick amongst them, btw, to find diaphragms that were both similar in "re-manufacturing" and then sensitivity and response (best match). A time consuming process, too. Guess my time is free. 🙁
_-_-
I bought a few lots of them, and selected (matched) and sold a handful to offset the costs, back-in-the-day. This is back almost 20 years now. It was never a "product" or of many units. I had to pick amongst them, btw, to find diaphragms that were both similar in "re-manufacturing" and then sensitivity and response (best match). A time consuming process, too. Guess my time is free. 🙁
_-_-
I am quite aware of this kind of calculation and it is the most common used.
Any dB to W calculator will calculate the way you put it.
But it is much more complicated and in Audio-circles there are many opposing opinions about it.
I take the frequency of 1000Hz, as this is the frequency the human ear is most sensitive to.
The way I learned it (and as said, I know opposing opinions) is that at this very frequency of 1k 6dB are double "experienced" SPL (I hope SPL is the right term here)
The way you calculate it, i.e. +10dB as difference from 1W to 10W relates to
10dB being double SPL.
Odeon,
The average human ear is most sensitive to around 4000 Hz, as can be verified looking at equal loudness contours conducted by many different researchers through the years.
You are confusing dB SPL (sound pressure level, a logarithmic scale) with the phon.
By definition, the number of phon of a sound is the dB SPL of a sound at a frequency of 1 kHz that sounds just as loud.
At 1000 Hz, a ten dB increase does sound about twice as loud, while at 20 Hz just a 5 dB increase sounds twice as loud.
Whether something sounds louder, and the correct way to figure SPL are two different things, I simply was pointing out the error of your SPL calculations, which use dB, not phons or any other unit.
Art
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I thought I read it, but perhaps I did not.
We agree on the idea that Meyer got the drivers from Yamaha and doped them. Put this one to bed. Ok? 😀
No answer on the WE555? No?
dB phon son
You are correct, as I mentioned, it is also a difficulty in language:
Volume is what the human ear receives subjectivly
SPL (Lp is the name used here) is a result (force, impact, effect)
Sound intensity (sound power density) is origin (reason)
- Doubling of volume (loudness) is received (sensed) at a change of level of +10dB
- Doubling of sound-pressure-level (voltage) equates to a measured change of level of +6dB
- Doubling of sound power density (sound intensity = acoustig energy) equates the calculated change of level of -3dB
+10dB is the level of doubled received (subjective) volume in psycho-acoustics: this is relative
+ 6dB is the level of the double (effective) value of measured change
You are correct, as I mentioned, it is also a difficulty in language:
Volume is what the human ear receives subjectivly
SPL (Lp is the name used here) is a result (force, impact, effect)
Sound intensity (sound power density) is origin (reason)
- Doubling of volume (loudness) is received (sensed) at a change of level of +10dB
- Doubling of sound-pressure-level (voltage) equates to a measured change of level of +6dB
- Doubling of sound power density (sound intensity = acoustig energy) equates the calculated change of level of -3dB
+10dB is the level of doubled received (subjective) volume in psycho-acoustics: this is relative
+ 6dB is the level of the double (effective) value of measured change
Gospels
one needs to understand the 1570b very well. In original condition soso. If modified
(a lot of work) the are great. Super output transformers, some of the best ever built for this kind of application. Sturdy work-horses then.
One has to be very careful when this large paper-oil capacitor has to be changed, to get a similar replacement. It has to be a similar condensor. Many make this mistake and replace it wrongly.
and you know "Most People" yes?
... again one of your assumptions based on guessing.
Most people I know do not clip them.
Most people who buy or built SE DHT amps do know where to use them.
and if they clip them, they know. One "can" hear clipping.
Good... for a last time I shall... but not "popping back in", don't need that...
A SE DHT amp does not "specialise in anything".
The sound quality depends very much of what the designer knows, understands and can apply, depending also on how much costs are allowed.
So the designer can specialise, he even can specialise in adding certain sound characteristics if he wants. He can play with the curve of the triode and the way he drives it, the way it is loaded et all. And... he can .. if he is good, design it very purist and thus this amp is not designed for producing 2nd harmonics.
You take your information from what you read and then you make it your own, but....it will remain an opinion based on hear-say, nothing else.
You see, it is like surfing, one can read and read and read thousands of books about it. You can even produce a clever book about it. But the moment you stand on a board.... splash..... wet as wet can be
No, there is no need to stand on the top. Why? This ain't no catwalk here.
Yes, what you said often stood on its own, your use of ferrofluid, the dangers of vaseline, DH SET, bi-amping, all based on the ground of this surfboard I mentioned
For that you have to read and verify those gospels.
And not about what may or may not be.
one needs to understand the 1570b very well. In original condition soso. If modified
(a lot of work) the are great. Super output transformers, some of the best ever built for this kind of application. Sturdy work-horses then.
One has to be very careful when this large paper-oil capacitor has to be changed, to get a similar replacement. It has to be a similar condensor. Many make this mistake and replace it wrongly.
and you know "Most People" yes?
... again one of your assumptions based on guessing.
Most people I know do not clip them.
Most people who buy or built SE DHT amps do know where to use them.
and if they clip them, they know. One "can" hear clipping.
Good... for a last time I shall... but not "popping back in", don't need that...
A SE DHT amp does not "specialise in anything".
The sound quality depends very much of what the designer knows, understands and can apply, depending also on how much costs are allowed.
So the designer can specialise, he even can specialise in adding certain sound characteristics if he wants. He can play with the curve of the triode and the way he drives it, the way it is loaded et all. And... he can .. if he is good, design it very purist and thus this amp is not designed for producing 2nd harmonics.
You take your information from what you read and then you make it your own, but....it will remain an opinion based on hear-say, nothing else.
You see, it is like surfing, one can read and read and read thousands of books about it. You can even produce a clever book about it. But the moment you stand on a board.... splash..... wet as wet can be
No, there is no need to stand on the top. Why? This ain't no catwalk here.
Yes, what you said often stood on its own, your use of ferrofluid, the dangers of vaseline, DH SET, bi-amping, all based on the ground of this surfboard I mentioned
For that you have to read and verify those gospels.
And not about what may or may not be.
last one on Yamaha 6681b
you got it. No!
Because it is useless.
I don't have it anymore, it's long time ago, so reading about it won't make it a verified experience. And you don't have it at home either. This is speculation.
Now... don't tell us you've got 555's..... !
But the Yamaha I have here, as some TAD's and good horns.
I worked with them for over 20 years and perfected the way to drive them.
Anything else would be repetition, I wrote enough about 'em.
you got it. No!
Because it is useless.
I don't have it anymore, it's long time ago, so reading about it won't make it a verified experience. And you don't have it at home either. This is speculation.
Now... don't tell us you've got 555's..... !
But the Yamaha I have here, as some TAD's and good horns.
I worked with them for over 20 years and perfected the way to drive them.
Anything else would be repetition, I wrote enough about 'em.
Thanks for the heads up.
The output iron is undersized for full range hi-fi use - not enough core. But other than that, it is ok iron. Pretty good considering the high Z primary.
I think I understand the amp.
Maybe not.
Feel free to start a thread and explain?
Please tell me about the "most people" that you know who "do not clip them"?
I am most curious as to how they manage this.
I feel pretty much in the SOA (safe operating area) if I say that unless all of these people are only running compression drivers, or are using VERY large tubes SE (like 833, etc) on unusually high sensitivity dynamic speakers (and even then, only maybe) that it is very likely that they are clipping peaks all of the time.
The typical owner of an SE amp is unlikely to monitor his headroom with a 'scope, unlikely to have ample headroom, and is likely unaware of clipping.
The same holds true for the typical owner of solid state gear, using typical "90db" sensitivity speakers.
Most people who buy or built SE DHT amps do know where to use them.
It's easy to see why this is true. It's been discussed here into the ground. Take ur average listening level at the listening position, work backwards to the 1m position, subtract the dB for the distance, look at the required power above the 1w/1m figure that this represents, then add 20dB to that and figure the power required. That's the requisite minimum power and headroom, and SPL capability needed to reproduce reasonably uncompressed music/sound. The typical 3-15watt SE amp rarely is connected to a system that will meet this criteria. I think I said this approximately correctly...
yours may, your friends may, but most almost certainly do not.
Really hard clipping, sustained, sure. Transients clipped? Nah. It does not show up as a single definable event. You hear it in the soundstage for the most part, or if you can sense limiting as the end of the saturation curve of a SE tube is hit... (especially zero feedback SE).
Guessing you run SE with loop feedback then?
But it will anyway, produce mostly even order harmonics, and a lot of 2nd before anything else.
From where do you pull this conjecture from?
Where?
This is just silly.
Why do you insist upon painting me with your brush?
You seem to think that I am just a person who had read books?
You think I have built and designed no amplifiers or speakers, etc??
Why do you think this?
How can you think this? You have been to my website, you said so!!
(btw, where is yours?)
Useless to discuss?
No, not useless.
It serves to make clear the topic that you argue so strongly and with such certainty.
The fact that it is an old design does nothing to change the quality of the design, change the physics of the design, or change how it is and was used.
So, quite useful to discuss.
No, at the present time I have neither the 555s nor the Chinese copies. I almost bought a pair of the Chinese copies a couple of years ago, but decided against it for reasons that had to do with some subtleties of their manufacturing process, and the amount of time I had to work with them. But the copies are not so incredibly expensive...
However I have heard them, had them in my hands, and know several people within driving distance who have them now. Does that matter? No.
What matters is the design/engineering principles of the 555 and the performance they afford.
Suggest you read up on it.
No doubt a trade secret of some sort. But if so, that is fine, because any improvement is good.
I told you I have had at least 40 of the Yamaha drivers over a period of some time. I have quite a few in reserve now. Just in case I need to deploy a killer high SPL mini system, I'm set! 😎
(But you argued with me about the diaphragm doping anyhow.)
I know the TADs, nice drivers. First quality standard compression drivers.
Odeon, if you have some real info to add. How about pix of your Yamaha drivers in action? Your amps? Please do post. It would be nice to see. Personally, I am not looking for a millionaire's mansion. Just real audio stuff.
The only other thing to say is that there are a lot of experienced, smart guys reading along here. They'd tell me to shut up and go sit down if what I was saying was off base or not quite right... at least this far along they haven't. So, maybe think about that some too?
SE DHT amplifiers driving compression drivers directly
Thanks for you kindness and allowing me this freedom
I am not interested. I don't owe the 1570b anymore, but I know it pretty well.
The output transformers of the 1570b are not at all undersized for fullrange use.
Those transformers measure and can perform very wideband (fullrange).
It has nothing to do with "not enough" corematerial. There are several approaches of how to wind an output transformer. One has to understand how to better the ciruit, then the output tranny can sing at its best. This was a (great) cinema-amp, to make it excellent for Audio one needs to really understand the design, understand triodeamps..... and then.... do it
Curiosity can be a good driving factor, if one uses it to verify by oneself, tries to find out... but... to satisfy your thirst and hopefully instill more thirst for reality in you, I shall later explain (again... as usual)
Your idea that they have to clip at peak levels is just theory (guessing)
One has to LISTEN and use educated ears, the finest measuring instrument available.
which you are not...
why should he, he has ears to hear...
nonsense
if he does not sit on his ears, he will be aware
ahh... but you, who never built or properly used a SE DHT amp, know more about it
than those who did or do? Strange logic.
Truth has to be verified, its not a matter of believe or disbelieve
remember this surfer who never stood on a surfboard but knew all about it in theory?
As I said: You don't trust you ears...
You do not have any experience with such SE DHT amplifiers but ... you barge in.
I spoke quite clearly about:
a) compression drivers such as the Yamaha JA6681b or TADs or similar
b) driving such drivers with low power high quality -6dB network built in DE DHT amps
But you... inexperienced in this field, barge in and you have to pour out your
opinion based on ZERO but theory which still remains ZERO
again, you know *MOST* of those who use SE DHT amps?
Personally met them?
I daubt this very much.
It is not your field, it does not interest you.
You are so convinced about your theories that you would not for real interest or real curiosity work with such amplifiers. Now you might... maybe.... but hopefull
with a real interest of a real developer and not the interest of that guy who just wants to confirm his (wrong and biased) opinions in first place
guesswork again based on pure theory, but not on verification!
of course a SE driven DHT produces by nature more 2nd order harmonic distortions than 3.rd order but this is to be seen as positive, as those 2.nd order distortions are more harmonic in their nature (to the human ear)
Nevertheless, it depends very much on how linear the amp and particular the output transformer is.
this is one of those typical guessings which show how little you understand
of SE DHT amps.
I'd rather hang that triode on that loop than using feedback..
!!!
FEEDBACK IS ALWAYS there to CORRECT ERRORS !!!
Better not produce those errors in the first place
.
And... you need a real good output-transformer
Good transformers are scary, I know...hard to come by.. not so easy to make...
not easy to find good corematerial these days.
A real good MOS-FET amp uses no feedback either, does not need it.
But you need perfect paired MOS-FETS etc.
Everything has to be really perfectly tuned, complementary and balanced
WRONG.....
A good designed and built SE DHT amp will produce "before anything else" on the
right speaker perfect music. That is produces 2nd and not so much other order distortions is just a benefit of the nature of a DHT in a good SE amp.
your postings in this thread.... what else!
No, but you think and measure too much, you don't trust your ears....
Sure. ...
I know you built MOS-FET amps, repaired other amps. Fine.
I told you, we speak a different audio-language.
So, with this... I shall end this discussion.....
Thanks for you kindness and allowing me this freedom
I am not interested. I don't owe the 1570b anymore, but I know it pretty well.
The output transformers of the 1570b are not at all undersized for fullrange use.
Those transformers measure and can perform very wideband (fullrange).
It has nothing to do with "not enough" corematerial. There are several approaches of how to wind an output transformer. One has to understand how to better the ciruit, then the output tranny can sing at its best. This was a (great) cinema-amp, to make it excellent for Audio one needs to really understand the design, understand triodeamps..... and then.... do it
Curiosity can be a good driving factor, if one uses it to verify by oneself, tries to find out... but... to satisfy your thirst and hopefully instill more thirst for reality in you, I shall later explain (again... as usual)
Your idea that they have to clip at peak levels is just theory (guessing)
One has to LISTEN and use educated ears, the finest measuring instrument available.
which you are not...
why should he, he has ears to hear...
nonsense
if he does not sit on his ears, he will be aware
ahh... but you, who never built or properly used a SE DHT amp, know more about it
than those who did or do? Strange logic.
It's easy to see why this is true.
Truth has to be verified, its not a matter of believe or disbelieve
remember this surfer who never stood on a surfboard but knew all about it in theory?As I said: You don't trust you ears...
You do not have any experience with such SE DHT amplifiers but ... you barge in.
I spoke quite clearly about:
a) compression drivers such as the Yamaha JA6681b or TADs or similar
b) driving such drivers with low power high quality -6dB network built in DE DHT amps
But you... inexperienced in this field, barge in and you have to pour out your
opinion based on ZERO but theory which still remains ZERO
again, you know *MOST* of those who use SE DHT amps?
Personally met them?
I daubt this very much.
It is not your field, it does not interest you.
You are so convinced about your theories that you would not for real interest or real curiosity work with such amplifiers. Now you might... maybe.... but hopefull
with a real interest of a real developer and not the interest of that guy who just wants to confirm his (wrong and biased) opinions in first place
guesswork again based on pure theory, but not on verification!
of course a SE driven DHT produces by nature more 2nd order harmonic distortions than 3.rd order but this is to be seen as positive, as those 2.nd order distortions are more harmonic in their nature (to the human ear)
Nevertheless, it depends very much on how linear the amp and particular the output transformer is.
this is one of those typical guessings which show how little you understand
of SE DHT amps.
I'd rather hang that triode on that loop than using feedback..
!!!
FEEDBACK IS ALWAYS there to CORRECT ERRORS !!!Better not produce those errors in the first place.And... you need a real good output-transformer
Good transformers are scary, I know...hard to come by.. not so easy to make...
not easy to find good corematerial these days.
A real good MOS-FET amp uses no feedback either, does not need it.
But you need perfect paired MOS-FETS etc.
Everything has to be really perfectly tuned, complementary and balanced
WRONG.....
A good designed and built SE DHT amp will produce "before anything else" on the
right speaker perfect music. That is produces 2nd and not so much other order distortions is just a benefit of the nature of a DHT in a good SE amp.
your postings in this thread
.... what else!
You seem to think that I am just a person who had read books?
You think I have built and designed no amplifiers or speakers, etc??
Why do you think this?
No, but you think and measure too much, you don't trust your ears....
Sure. ...
I know you built MOS-FET amps, repaired other amps. Fine.
I told you, we speak a different audio-language.
So, with this... I shall end this discussion.....
Let's see.
I think you said you've been doing this for 20 years?
That's 1994.
Seems like my "experience" predates yours by quite a bit.
However, that is no guarantee of much. Even I say that.
But for you to assert that you know something about me, what I own, have owned, have heard, or know, or how I work or what I think about things like "you think and measure too much, you don't trust your ears" is fairly absurd. Trying to be nice about this, you know?
Read up on clipping, especially transient clipping, the power/headroom required to prevent that (there are threads here that discuss it rather fully).
Then read up on the 555 driver, that you have refused to consider, while at the same time claiming all sorts of things, including "correctness" and a superior knowledge, and get back to me, or not.
In the mean time, feel free to start up a thread explaining your theories and designs, and share a few crumbs with folks, including those who like myself apparently are in need of guidance?
Try backing up your positions with more than assertions. Thanks.
I think you said you've been doing this for 20 years?
That's 1994.
Seems like my "experience" predates yours by quite a bit.
However, that is no guarantee of much. Even I say that.
But for you to assert that you know something about me, what I own, have owned, have heard, or know, or how I work or what I think about things like "you think and measure too much, you don't trust your ears" is fairly absurd. Trying to be nice about this, you know?
Read up on clipping, especially transient clipping, the power/headroom required to prevent that (there are threads here that discuss it rather fully).
Then read up on the 555 driver, that you have refused to consider, while at the same time claiming all sorts of things, including "correctness" and a superior knowledge, and get back to me, or not.
In the mean time, feel free to start up a thread explaining your theories and designs, and share a few crumbs with folks, including those who like myself apparently are in need of guidance?
Try backing up your positions with more than assertions. Thanks.
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The difference between effort and speculation
Quote! Where did I say that?
You see, it is *YOUR* work, you effort to at least read previous posts and then quote correctly. Its called "VERIFICATION"
Stop speculating but make the effort.
ah... an olypic discipline
... based on your wrong speculations this must be the case...
but at least you leave your speculations now open for other options:
Even you?
What do you indicate with this? Are you somebody one must know?
Did I miss to bow my head and miss to throw my hat (into this ample headroom)?
To you it is absurd, fine. So be it.
In this thread you have been mainly speculating, i.e. nill effort to try to find out,
verify. As it seems that you do built amlifiers, you should have mentioned "ample headroom" to actually find out. But no... you continue speculating.
No need for that. You are clinging. With the JA driver we have all the ample headroom we need but you... not being able to finally make this step and verifiy, you can bang you head against whatever headroom, it won't change the facts that with a 2W SE DHT amp and network built in, one can drive the JA driver with perfection. You are like that that author who wrote those books about surfing and is
asked to stand on a surfboard and surf. The sad thing is.... you could surf! You have that potential, but no, you insist on some theories which do not apply here and sit on your opinion like a **** on an imaginary egg hoping some phoenix will hatch.
http://thebacklot.mtvnimages.com/up...ot_2012-10-31_at_1.18_.21_AM_.png?quality=0.7
Ahh... your straw, which you hang-on to. I am not interested in theory. I can't listen to the orig. 555 anymore, so thats it. Period. I won't speculate. No use. I would have to hear. But this is not what it is about. I suggested something special about how to drive the JA drivers, not the 555.
So your insistence here is kind of a strawmans argument.
again, thanks for your generosity. You're very kind.
You see, again you speculate on future while you have got all the material to actually go ahead (room) and find out for yourself. It means some work, some effort.
But no, you want others to do the work for you so you can possibly barge in and
stir up a soup which you yourself never tasted.
I have explained not just theory but something practical, something I practiced, worked with... and gave the hints.
The person who understands will just work instead of argue and speculate
You should read the story of Mulla Nasruddin called "soup of the soup".
to satisfy an forever hungry tapeworm called "speculate forever?
Quote! Where did I say that?
You see, it is *YOUR* work, you effort to at least read previous posts and then quote correctly. Its called "VERIFICATION"
Stop speculating but make the effort.
ah... an olypic discipline
... based on your wrong speculations this must be the case...
but at least you leave your speculations now open for other options:
However, that is no guarantee of much.
Even I say that.
Even you?
What do you indicate with this? Are you somebody one must know?
Did I miss to bow my head and miss to throw my hat (into this ample headroom)?
To you it is absurd, fine. So be it.
In this thread you have been mainly speculating, i.e. nill effort to try to find out,
verify. As it seems that you do built amlifiers, you should have mentioned "ample headroom" to actually find out. But no... you continue speculating.
No need for that. You are clinging. With the JA driver we have all the ample headroom we need but you... not being able to finally make this step and verifiy, you can bang you head against whatever headroom, it won't change the facts that with a 2W SE DHT amp and network built in, one can drive the JA driver with perfection. You are like that that author who wrote those books about surfing and is
asked to stand on a surfboard and surf. The sad thing is.... you could surf! You have that potential, but no, you insist on some theories which do not apply here and sit on your opinion like a **** on an imaginary egg hoping some phoenix will hatch.
http://thebacklot.mtvnimages.com/up...ot_2012-10-31_at_1.18_.21_AM_.png?quality=0.7
Ahh... your straw, which you hang-on to. I am not interested in theory. I can't listen to the orig. 555 anymore, so thats it. Period. I won't speculate. No use. I would have to hear. But this is not what it is about. I suggested something special about how to drive the JA drivers, not the 555.
So your insistence here is kind of a strawmans argument.
again, thanks for your generosity. You're very kind.
You see, again you speculate on future while you have got all the material to actually go ahead (room) and find out for yourself. It means some work, some effort.
But no, you want others to do the work for you so you can possibly barge in and
stir up a soup which you yourself never tasted.
I have explained not just theory but something practical, something I practiced, worked with... and gave the hints.
The person who understands will just work instead of argue and speculate
You should read the story of Mulla Nasruddin called "soup of the soup".
to satisfy an forever hungry tapeworm called "speculate forever?
So, I think I can summarize your recipe:
- use a low power (I think you said 2W) SE amp
- use loop feedback in the amp design
- drive the Yamaha/Meyer driver directly, no passive xover
- put the xover, perhaps a first order at the input of the amp.
This is it?
Do not think you mentioned a specific xover F3 point.
Do not think you mentioned the size/freq/type of horn.
Is there something missing?
Could have said all that just this concisely.
_-_-
PS. you don't have to be "tired" of listening to 555 drivers, I asked about their
spec several times. But since you either don't know, won't answer, or whatever, I'll state the point I was aiming for now. WE rated them to 75Hz. This speaks to your comment(s) on running the Yamaha/Meyer below the "resonant frequency" and poking fun at how low they could run. The 555 is a case in point, illuminates the issue(s).
- use a low power (I think you said 2W) SE amp
- use loop feedback in the amp design
- drive the Yamaha/Meyer driver directly, no passive xover
- put the xover, perhaps a first order at the input of the amp.
This is it?
Do not think you mentioned a specific xover F3 point.
Do not think you mentioned the size/freq/type of horn.
Is there something missing?
Could have said all that just this concisely.
_-_-
PS. you don't have to be "tired" of listening to 555 drivers, I asked about their
spec several times. But since you either don't know, won't answer, or whatever, I'll state the point I was aiming for now. WE rated them to 75Hz. This speaks to your comment(s) on running the Yamaha/Meyer below the "resonant frequency" and poking fun at how low they could run. The 555 is a case in point, illuminates the issue(s).
a never-ending story
with a little correction: use a GOOD low power SE DHT amp,
that's the best solution.
Good tubes as suggestion: Single Plate 2A3 (Monoplate), 45 is not bad
WE275A (very good), PX4, PP3/350, AD1, etc.) plate-dissipation of 10-15W
flabbergasted
... You really don't read my posts, don't you!
You see, if other people are lazy in reading properly, it is kind of rude to make them correct your errors. You seem to have really a problem with memory. Too often that I had to remind you of this.
Suggestion: before hitting the send-button, read the old posts first.
Yep
not perhaps but certainly, as I described it very exactly
Yep, the rest is try and error....
it's the fun to find out for oneself
I did! Maybe you need reading glasses
?
Well, that should be immanent. A good horn which goes below the
mentioned x-over point (of 400-500Hz)
Altec, Dauphin, Sato, Vitavox (with adapters), good tratrix, and so forth...
Yes.... the rest of the chain....
and 2 good ears and maybe a good glass of Bordeaux plus some good music
I did, but you didn't listen nor read!
Who says that I am tired of them. I wouldn't. But I am not going to spend silly money, as I do not like large long horns. They kill treble resolution.
400 or 500Hz allows 2-way .... or, if treble is missing (depends a bit on the horn)
then one looks for a tweeter with similar efficiency which one adds as a supertweeter, here a very good capacitor will do. If the tweeter is a little less in efficincy, no problem, if too loud, one can attenuate, here there is no danger, as it is
added as super-tweeter, way way above its resonance frequency. 15000Hz or so with the JA driver.
Indeed... and I did not answer for a reason.
It was kind of childish.
If you have something to say to proove something that is important to you then say it.
third option:
"whatever!"
Good, I know and knew this. So what.
It was just quite useless.
More or less like saying a Ferrari has 360 hp and a V-8 engine, so you can use
a Jaguar V8 engine instead.
Does it? Really?
I have tried the Yamaha cut-off low and did not like it. Heard the fx "muddling" through.
I made that clear as clear can be.
If I get this term "poking fun" right here... no.... I was not poking fun...
... sometimes I try to tease you a bit to get you out of your idee fixe system.
You mean, a hotdog, because one can eat it, is the same like a hamburger?
The 555 is a different driver. Has different suspension. The suspension of the JA is quite unique, very similar to the legendary Goodmans Axiom 301.
Nobody else... as far as I know, ever produced such a special suspension (besides of Yamaha in very few of their own drivers)
This suspension would allow deeper cut-off, but it has its fx and ... it is far more sensitive than the standard suspension. I have seen blown diaphragms, partly due to hardened ferro-not-so-fluid anymore, partly due to re-modifying Meyermods back to original Altec status, and... partly due to too low fx use = misuse.
Anyway:
and again...
... a good woofersystem can reproduce very well up to 400 or 500Hz.
Then the JA can really go all the way up just limited (or better not!) by the way the horn matches it to the air and the room.
So... thats it... I won't write anymore on this issue.
You have all that is needed, way too often repeated
so it's really up to you, if you have those abilities of building amps etc., then it
is more or less kindergarten for you. Others need help, but you should be able to do it almost "ad libitum"
with a little correction: use a GOOD low power SE DHT amp,
that's the best solution.
Good tubes as suggestion: Single Plate 2A3 (Monoplate), 45 is not bad
WE275A (very good), PX4, PP3/350, AD1, etc.) plate-dissipation of 10-15W
flabbergasted
... You really don't read my posts, don't you! You see, if other people are lazy in reading properly, it is kind of rude to make them correct your errors. You seem to have really a problem with memory. Too often that I had to remind you of this.
Suggestion: before hitting the send-button, read the old posts first.
Yep
not perhaps but certainly, as I described it very exactly
Yep, the rest is try and error....
it's the fun to find out for oneself
I did! Maybe you need reading glasses
?Well, that should be immanent. A good horn which goes below the
mentioned x-over point (of 400-500Hz)
Altec, Dauphin, Sato, Vitavox (with adapters), good tratrix, and so forth...
Yes.... the rest of the chain....
and 2 good ears and maybe a good glass of Bordeaux plus some good music
I did, but you didn't listen nor read!
Who says that I am tired of them. I wouldn't. But I am not going to spend silly money, as I do not like large long horns. They kill treble resolution.
400 or 500Hz allows 2-way .... or, if treble is missing (depends a bit on the horn)
then one looks for a tweeter with similar efficiency which one adds as a supertweeter, here a very good capacitor will do. If the tweeter is a little less in efficincy, no problem, if too loud, one can attenuate, here there is no danger, as it is
added as super-tweeter, way way above its resonance frequency. 15000Hz or so with the JA driver.
Indeed... and I did not answer for a reason.
It was kind of childish.
If you have something to say to proove something that is important to you then say it.
third option:
"whatever!"
Good, I know and knew this. So what.
It was just quite useless.
More or less like saying a Ferrari has 360 hp and a V-8 engine, so you can use
a Jaguar V8 engine instead.
Does it? Really?
I have tried the Yamaha cut-off low and did not like it. Heard the fx "muddling" through.
I made that clear as clear can be.
If I get this term "poking fun" right here... no.... I was not poking fun...
... sometimes I try to tease you a bit to get you out of your idee fixe system.
You mean, a hotdog, because one can eat it, is the same like a hamburger?
The 555 is a different driver. Has different suspension. The suspension of the JA is quite unique, very similar to the legendary Goodmans Axiom 301.
Nobody else... as far as I know, ever produced such a special suspension (besides of Yamaha in very few of their own drivers)
This suspension would allow deeper cut-off, but it has its fx and ... it is far more sensitive than the standard suspension. I have seen blown diaphragms, partly due to hardened ferro-not-so-fluid anymore, partly due to re-modifying Meyermods back to original Altec status, and... partly due to too low fx use = misuse.
Anyway:
and again...
... a good woofersystem can reproduce very well up to 400 or 500Hz.
Then the JA can really go all the way up just limited (or better not!) by the way the horn matches it to the air and the room.
So... thats it... I won't write anymore on this issue.
You have all that is needed, way too often repeated
so it's really up to you, if you have those abilities of building amps etc., then it
is more or less kindergarten for you. Others need help, but you should be able to do it almost "ad libitum"
Thanks for clearing all that up.
I feel much better now.
Glad you could clear up all the uncertainty.
Now nothing but calm, clear waters ahead, smooth like glass...
ahhhh...
_-_-
I feel much better now.
Glad you could clear up all the uncertainty.
Now nothing but calm, clear waters ahead, smooth like glass...
ahhhh...
_-_-
Was backing up my now antique website and noticed some images hiding in the corners. This is one.
From the time before we all used computers to do this stuff...
The observant reader will note +/-1dB across a very wide range - no EQ applied, no smoothing added to whatever the measurement system default was.
From the time before we all used computers to do this stuff...
The observant reader will note +/-1dB across a very wide range - no EQ applied, no smoothing added to whatever the measurement system default was.
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