Hi everyone
I need some feedback on a subwoofer system I have in mind. My room is 27' long, 9' high and 11' wide. At one end I want to install two Peerless XLS 830452 drivers in the corners of a cabinet open to the 18" void under my house. They will be driven by 350 watts of class D, fed through a Tannoy active crossover. The system they will complement is a pair of Vulcans with Fostex Fe203en-s driven by AN Conquests. I thought I'd let the Vulcans go down to 120hz and cross over there. This is for music not HT. As an idiot, I humbly ask if this is a sensible plan or if there are any issues I need to be aware of?
I'm going for this approach because it seems simple and I've no idea how to design a box, the carpentry will not be a problem because it's something I can do.
Many thanks.
I need some feedback on a subwoofer system I have in mind. My room is 27' long, 9' high and 11' wide. At one end I want to install two Peerless XLS 830452 drivers in the corners of a cabinet open to the 18" void under my house. They will be driven by 350 watts of class D, fed through a Tannoy active crossover. The system they will complement is a pair of Vulcans with Fostex Fe203en-s driven by AN Conquests. I thought I'd let the Vulcans go down to 120hz and cross over there. This is for music not HT. As an idiot, I humbly ask if this is a sensible plan or if there are any issues I need to be aware of?
I'm going for this approach because it seems simple and I've no idea how to design a box, the carpentry will not be a problem because it's something I can do.
Many thanks.
"Cult of the Infinitely Baffled"Hear The Bass, Not The Box The definitive online resource for Infinite Baffle subwoofer designEstablished 1999 - Home
Mine feels awesome with a small room a Peerless 12", a Behringer DEQ 2496 and a car amp till I get more funds 🙂
Mine feels awesome with a small room a Peerless 12", a Behringer DEQ 2496 and a car amp till I get more funds 🙂
Don't drive your drivers above X max and you have no worries about driver excursion.
Excursion!
I'm using a single Peerless 12" in my loft, I can't remember the model number, its an XXLS with Aluminum cone. My loft is obviously huge and my listening room a measly 3 x 4 m2. My DEQ 2496 has hold of a few peeks and troughs and I've been gentle with my house curve. Diana Krall Girl in the other room sounds a treat, Double bass and piano going down a treat and yet when I listen to Somafm's Drone Zone, I can feel my sofa move, but I don't hear much bass! So I'm thinking maybe thats below my hearing. However, if I watch a movie, I gotta be careful, theres a whole lot of movement going on!! Always be careful if you play movies through an IB, especially Blu Ray and Action movies. You need some good excursion, I think Ive got 15mm in one direction, you should aim for 30mm!! My previous system had 2 15" drivers with 30mm one way, driven by 450w rms amp, but thats tied up in my Divorce 🙁
Maybe just try and see, have a look to see if you can reverse any openings if it doesn't work. My 12" was in a box, but I had to have an IB, I'm bitten by it 🙂
Mike
Cheers
I'm using a single Peerless 12" in my loft, I can't remember the model number, its an XXLS with Aluminum cone. My loft is obviously huge and my listening room a measly 3 x 4 m2. My DEQ 2496 has hold of a few peeks and troughs and I've been gentle with my house curve. Diana Krall Girl in the other room sounds a treat, Double bass and piano going down a treat and yet when I listen to Somafm's Drone Zone, I can feel my sofa move, but I don't hear much bass! So I'm thinking maybe thats below my hearing. However, if I watch a movie, I gotta be careful, theres a whole lot of movement going on!! Always be careful if you play movies through an IB, especially Blu Ray and Action movies. You need some good excursion, I think Ive got 15mm in one direction, you should aim for 30mm!! My previous system had 2 15" drivers with 30mm one way, driven by 450w rms amp, but thats tied up in my Divorce 🙁
Maybe just try and see, have a look to see if you can reverse any openings if it doesn't work. My 12" was in a box, but I had to have an IB, I'm bitten by it 🙂
Mike
Cheers
Thanks for the advise, I won't be using these subs for movies so I guess I'll be OK. I will post pictures of the build.
Construction
Hi doubtingthomas, just in case you haven't looked at the construction side of things, your Manifolds are best solid. On the Cult website, they recommend I think it was 18mm mdf with an 18mm ply skin. Solid bracing, and a solid attachment to the floor. So with that in mind, mines chip board and some scraps of wood to stitch to my rafters 🙂
But like I said, my other one is at the ex wife's house, and I'm a single parent, I have my eldest daughter who lives with me and 12 year old girls are expensive 🙂
Hi doubtingthomas, just in case you haven't looked at the construction side of things, your Manifolds are best solid. On the Cult website, they recommend I think it was 18mm mdf with an 18mm ply skin. Solid bracing, and a solid attachment to the floor. So with that in mind, mines chip board and some scraps of wood to stitch to my rafters 🙂
But like I said, my other one is at the ex wife's house, and I'm a single parent, I have my eldest daughter who lives with me and 12 year old girls are expensive 🙂
some pics
My IB on a budget😀 My source is a PC running Linux Ubuntu 12.04, I have an Asus Xonar DS soundcard, I'm using optical out, a Yamaha RX-V565 Surround Reciever, ( I'm 2 channel only- I have centre and surrounds but rarely watch movies), you can see my Beringer ECM8000 mic and a pre on the floor in one pic. The car amp is an MBQuart, I don't belive its quoted power, but its happy driving the Peerless. And yes, thats all chipboard. I also have a Radio Shack digital SPL meter and a spare hard drive with, yuck, Window$ 7 on it, wich I run REW. REW is a good bit of software for measuring things 🙂 and its free. Can never get it running under Linux, hence my Windoze 7 hdd.
REW - Room EQ Wizard Home Page
Mike
My IB on a budget😀 My source is a PC running Linux Ubuntu 12.04, I have an Asus Xonar DS soundcard, I'm using optical out, a Yamaha RX-V565 Surround Reciever, ( I'm 2 channel only- I have centre and surrounds but rarely watch movies), you can see my Beringer ECM8000 mic and a pre on the floor in one pic. The car amp is an MBQuart, I don't belive its quoted power, but its happy driving the Peerless. And yes, thats all chipboard. I also have a Radio Shack digital SPL meter and a spare hard drive with, yuck, Window$ 7 on it, wich I run REW. REW is a good bit of software for measuring things 🙂 and its free. Can never get it running under Linux, hence my Windoze 7 hdd.
REW - Room EQ Wizard Home Page
Mike
Attachments
Thanks, I am mindful of the need for solidity so I will over engineer everything, carpentry is not a problem for me. Am I right in thinking IB gives best sound quality?
I believe so
Yeah, I'd say. No box is good 🙂 My first impression was, wheres the bass gone? But more like wheres the boom gone? My 2 15"s made a concrete slab outside the patio door, vibrate. The Prodigy live HD made my back brick wall vibrate against my back. The neighbours could never hear it! I think the large Sonotubes are supposed to be near IB, though I've never heard one, also there's a Tapped horn, Tapped Horn Experiments, never played fully with one 🙂 but I had a Linkwitz Transform on a 12" sealed box, that was beastly 😀, but no, give me an IB any day 🙂
Mike
Yeah, I'd say. No box is good 🙂 My first impression was, wheres the bass gone? But more like wheres the boom gone? My 2 15"s made a concrete slab outside the patio door, vibrate. The Prodigy live HD made my back brick wall vibrate against my back. The neighbours could never hear it! I think the large Sonotubes are supposed to be near IB, though I've never heard one, also there's a Tapped horn, Tapped Horn Experiments, never played fully with one 🙂 but I had a Linkwitz Transform on a 12" sealed box, that was beastly 😀, but no, give me an IB any day 🙂
Mike
Not optimal IB driver (small, low excursion and low Qts), but if you already have those go ahead.
Without HP filter xmax is achieved with 15W/driver at 5 Hz. => 104 db/1m
With 2nd order HP filter at 10 Hz xmax is achieved with 60W/driver at 5 Hz. => 110 db/1m
Without HP filter xmax is achieved with 15W/driver at 5 Hz. => 104 db/1m
With 2nd order HP filter at 10 Hz xmax is achieved with 60W/driver at 5 Hz. => 110 db/1m
I don't want to go below 20 Hz because I will not be using them for home theater. What would be an optimal driver?
In Europe it's hard to find IB drivers, but in US is better choises.
Fi IB3 Series Sub Woofers | Fi IB3 Subwoofer
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-455
Not sure about availability
http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=8
Two new drivers, but not much info about these in IB yet.
http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60
http://obsidiancaraudio.com/index.php?id=6
Higher budget.
TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18" DVC Subwoofer 293-666
iST Ltd.
Speaker Building Supplies from Madisound
Here's few photos of my IB project with two Fi IB318.
Fi IB3 Series Sub Woofers | Fi IB3 Subwoofer
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-455
Not sure about availability
http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=8
Two new drivers, but not much info about these in IB yet.
http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60
http://obsidiancaraudio.com/index.php?id=6
Higher budget.
TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18" DVC Subwoofer 293-666
iST Ltd.
Speaker Building Supplies from Madisound
Here's few photos of my IB project with two Fi IB318.
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But......
Me thinks the driver will see a small volume, although large lounge. Also, not wanting movies to be played through the system extreme xmax shouldn't be that critical! I never had the luxury of buying to suit the numbers. I bought what I could afford and stuck a driver in the loft. Sounds good to me, but if you can afford the gear and shipping, yes FLI drivers are more like it. I even experimented with a really budget £30 driver just to experience how it sounded. I cut a piece of ceiling out knowing full well I could put it back and filler the cut, re-patched floorboards are hidden under a carpet.
Mike🙂
Me thinks the driver will see a small volume, although large lounge. Also, not wanting movies to be played through the system extreme xmax shouldn't be that critical! I never had the luxury of buying to suit the numbers. I bought what I could afford and stuck a driver in the loft. Sounds good to me, but if you can afford the gear and shipping, yes FLI drivers are more like it. I even experimented with a really budget £30 driver just to experience how it sounded. I cut a piece of ceiling out knowing full well I could put it back and filler the cut, re-patched floorboards are hidden under a carpet.
Mike🙂
Thank you for those, I am in the States often so it's something to think about. I'll probably stick with what I have for now and upgrade in the future.
🙂
Best way to do it. Specs might differ, but usually diameter stays the same, so its just a question of swapping.😉
Mike
Best way to do it. Specs might differ, but usually diameter stays the same, so its just a question of swapping.😉
Mike
The Fi IB drivers look interesting but the shipping will be huge, maybe I can bring them back one at a time as luggage. Patching and modifying holes is no problem at all.
I've seen a couple of this type build, like weaponizing a house. 🙂 This build uses 4 x 18" drivers that look like laundry baskets. Almost 2" x-max. I might just get one of these drivers to hang on my wall and scare folks.
Under floor IB project using 54mm xmax drivers x4
Under floor IB project using 54mm xmax drivers x4
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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