Hi
I have a pair of special versions of the Vifa xt25 tweeters, with an extra magnet on, an a larger rear chamber, but I can't find a datasheet on them...
So what kan i expect in an increasement in db?? the magnet is the exact same size as the original one??
I have a pair of special versions of the Vifa xt25 tweeters, with an extra magnet on, an a larger rear chamber, but I can't find a datasheet on them...
So what kan i expect in an increasement in db?? the magnet is the exact same size as the original one??
Hi, my guess is you get maybe one db more - but I am told it will lower Q - and as a result more precision and then maybe the "feel" of a more sensitive driver.
Per Nielsen said:
😀
I think you'll find that this 'special version' of the XT25 is simply the shielded version 🙂 They generally come with an extra magnet to cancel the stray magnetic field.
Shinobiwan might be right - that the extra magnet may be after the poleplate and therefore turned the opposite way to cancel magnetic stray - but nonetheless, even so the driver changes character - allthgough I have only experimented with woofers with two extra magnets
No the magnet is not there to cancel magnetic strays
this is a special oem version that can't be bought, im testing out for a speaker projekt, unfortunely nobody as a spec sheet on it(they claim it never has been done)
So I was after some more specific facs in, the increasment in db with a extra magnet... I am perfectly aware of that the magnet is there to make the tweeter more precise... the db increasement is a side effect....
I simple dont have measurement equitment to do a scan...... Because my designs is all done by the ear
Just wanted to know before i mocked up a crossover....
but 1db sounds oka so I will try with a attenutation a that amount....
this is a special oem version that can't be bought, im testing out for a speaker projekt, unfortunely nobody as a spec sheet on it(they claim it never has been done)
So I was after some more specific facs in, the increasment in db with a extra magnet... I am perfectly aware of that the magnet is there to make the tweeter more precise... the db increasement is a side effect....
I simple dont have measurement equitment to do a scan...... Because my designs is all done by the ear
Just wanted to know before i mocked up a crossover....
but 1db sounds oka so I will try with a attenutation a that amount....
Does the tweeter have any markings or model number?
Here's the shielded XT25SC-30-04
http://www.akkus.com.pl/index.php?g...dt&PHPSESSID=d40ecf06365876518f20d822d4f68406
And the regular XT25TG-30-04
http://www.akkus.com.pl/index.php?g...dt&PHPSESSID=b002c5a7138a5c773e5c4d23eec52a71
Are you really sure this isn't a shielded version? You've got some interesting drivers if they're custom and shame you can't measure them if thats the case. BTW the XT25 is a great tweeter isn't it.
Here's the shielded XT25SC-30-04
http://www.akkus.com.pl/index.php?g...dt&PHPSESSID=d40ecf06365876518f20d822d4f68406
And the regular XT25TG-30-04
http://www.akkus.com.pl/index.php?g...dt&PHPSESSID=b002c5a7138a5c773e5c4d23eec52a71
Are you really sure this isn't a shielded version? You've got some interesting drivers if they're custom and shame you can't measure them if thats the case. BTW the XT25 is a great tweeter isn't it.
No It's not any of thoose versions😉
It can't be bought in stores... I was told it was the best one they ever did, but it only done in a very small quantaty.... time will tell how good it really is.... right now it sounds like the sensitivty is more like 93db.... I will try a bit more attenuation...
Salas:
Something important i have learned by all my projects is that the best sounding equitment often has the worst specs ever.... so I have gotten rid of alle my measurement tools It's all done by my ears....
Now that the projects has gotten seriuos -I belivede that it's extremly important that i follow my intuition....
It can't be bought in stores... I was told it was the best one they ever did, but it only done in a very small quantaty.... time will tell how good it really is.... right now it sounds like the sensitivty is more like 93db.... I will try a bit more attenuation...
Salas:
Something important i have learned by all my projects is that the best sounding equitment often has the worst specs ever.... so I have gotten rid of alle my measurement tools It's all done by my ears....
Now that the projects has gotten seriuos -I belivede that it's extremly important that i follow my intuition....
Attachments
Hi,
the tweeter in the image does not have an extra magnet
- well not in the magnetic circuit anyway. It is an expensive
form of providing shielding by using another main magnet.
The two magnets must be joined directly and the pole piece
be at the bottom to have a double magnet driver - which
Vifa do make :
🙂/sreten.
the tweeter in the image does not have an extra magnet
- well not in the magnetic circuit anyway. It is an expensive
form of providing shielding by using another main magnet.
The two magnets must be joined directly and the pole piece
be at the bottom to have a double magnet driver - which
Vifa do make :
🙂/sreten.
No your wrong.... it's not a sheilding magnet... It's only a sheilding if it is attached with reverse polarity -this is not...
You also get extra magnet power by glueing one on like this behind the other one... this is what they have done to prevent them from re-designing the chassis because thats expensive....
anyway got the answer from ShinOBIWAN with one db... i simply just didn't knew if we where talking 1 db or 10...
It appears to be 2 db...
You also get extra magnet power by glueing one on like this behind the other one... this is what they have done to prevent them from re-designing the chassis because thats expensive....
anyway got the answer from ShinOBIWAN with one db... i simply just didn't knew if we where talking 1 db or 10...
It appears to be 2 db...
Very interesting, can you explain the cornerstones of your approach? How you proceed in practice? What is important, how you start how you finish, steps, priorities.
Its kind of this Zen tai-chi - you start from the bottom, and when you have years of practice you can rely on your instinct 😎
Exactly tinitus
But there is a little more to it then that....
The very first thing I do when I have a new project in mind... Normally when that happens i already has a good visuel design...
Then I line up the things that I will lay the weight on in this special speaker...
examples could be:
Clear voices
Warm sound
A firm sound
Then I stick to that all the way through the process a uses that as the absolute refference...
Then I do the enclosures so It will fullfill my demands but still keep the original design lines... There is a number of way you can do the enclosure so It affects the final sound as you want it to sound...
The most importent thing because i normally do oval enclosures is to make a prototype of this to test the crossover an units in because they react very different from square boxes....
then I choose the units that meets my demands... if i want firm and sharp sound Ill go for some ribbon or amt tweeters an relatively small units for example...
then I choose crossover the same way....
a warm a round sound=1-2 order filters
a sharp and precise sound=3+order
normaly i combine orders...
And then the biggest deal is to listen and listen... tweak and tune.... it takes 75% of my speaker building process...
The most important is also to choose the real gear that you would expect to be yoused with your speaker... It's kind of stupid to do a big 3-5way speaker if you know its going to be connectet to a singel ended tubie amp of 8 watt...
It takes a large amount of practical expirence to design a speaker this way.... but when you master it you will be able of building superb speakers
You kan create the most thoeretical correctspeaker in the world with a perfectly flat spl... -but that would properly not be a good speaker.... why?? How knoves.... Well maybe kind of the same reason that good sound stilll can come from vinyl and tube amps
But there is a little more to it then that....
The very first thing I do when I have a new project in mind... Normally when that happens i already has a good visuel design...
Then I line up the things that I will lay the weight on in this special speaker...
examples could be:
Clear voices
Warm sound
A firm sound
Then I stick to that all the way through the process a uses that as the absolute refference...
Then I do the enclosures so It will fullfill my demands but still keep the original design lines... There is a number of way you can do the enclosure so It affects the final sound as you want it to sound...
The most importent thing because i normally do oval enclosures is to make a prototype of this to test the crossover an units in because they react very different from square boxes....
then I choose the units that meets my demands... if i want firm and sharp sound Ill go for some ribbon or amt tweeters an relatively small units for example...
then I choose crossover the same way....
a warm a round sound=1-2 order filters
a sharp and precise sound=3+order
normaly i combine orders...
And then the biggest deal is to listen and listen... tweak and tune.... it takes 75% of my speaker building process...
The most important is also to choose the real gear that you would expect to be yoused with your speaker... It's kind of stupid to do a big 3-5way speaker if you know its going to be connectet to a singel ended tubie amp of 8 watt...
It takes a large amount of practical expirence to design a speaker this way.... but when you master it you will be able of building superb speakers
You kan create the most thoeretical correctspeaker in the world with a perfectly flat spl... -but that would properly not be a good speaker.... why?? How knoves.... Well maybe kind of the same reason that good sound stilll can come from vinyl and tube amps
Per Nielsen said:
If you want an accurate speaker then by all means it must measure as well as possible. However a musical speaker gives a free license since musicality is entirely individual, accuracy isn't.
I'm the studio monitor type of sound guy, accurate, revealing, low colouration and true to the source however bad it may be. The problem with this approach is that it doesn't attempt to try and mask any deficiencies upstream and some recordings can be unlistenable as a result but get the right recording (and there's plenty around) and the results are spectacular.
Since we live in age where not every recording is good and very few are near perfect then there's a very valid argument for inaccurate/coloured but highly musical speakers.
Dont make the false presumption that musical speakers are less accurate....its actually quite the opposite
tinitus said:
😀 dumb fight of same words with different definitions, please don't even get started ... sure that a speaker can be musical AND accurate, shin was just refering to some speakers that are actually having some musicality and are not accurate in terms of linear frequency response.
there is plenty of reasons deciding not to have a flat response , some of them being price (!) , efficiency, distortion , etc ...
there are good measurable reason of finding why """good""" sound can come out of vinyl and tubes, so it is with speakers, even if we don't already know how to measure all parameters defining the musicality of a speaker
Thanks for presenting your methods.
My self I use all stuff available. Empirical crucial 'tuning' methods and decisions but WinMLS, Leap, Woofer Tester 2 and Soundeasy too. They help me speed up through methods and decisions greatly. Its like when I bias my self designed tube gear. I trust my ears for sweet spot but my multimeter keeps me in the ballpark and my NOS tubes from overdrive.
My self I use all stuff available. Empirical crucial 'tuning' methods and decisions but WinMLS, Leap, Woofer Tester 2 and Soundeasy too. They help me speed up through methods and decisions greatly. Its like when I bias my self designed tube gear. I trust my ears for sweet spot but my multimeter keeps me in the ballpark and my NOS tubes from overdrive.
tinitus said:
Its important that you don't make false assumptions about my definition of an 'accurate' loudspeaker 😉
By 'accurate' I mean that it is faithful to the signal that its being fed, reproducing it as closely as possible and not trying to create some psychoacoustic fascimilie of the original event through colouration. So by definition a loudspeaker which is accurate is indeed true to the source and since we only have an expectation of what the original event sounded like, its somewhat futile to try and smudge the facts in favour of something that is unknown to begin with, in this case its better to rely on decent recordings played back through high resolution and accurate loudspeakers IMO.
A loudspeaker which does this best is the one that measures as close to perfect as possible and at life-like listening levels. Of course this brings the quality of the recording into sharp contrast and then of course we start to hear things like "the speaker is unforgiving" and "its unnatural" etc. And in this case its actually the lesser quality recordings and not the loudspeakers fault that makes the music seem poor however get the recording right and the rest is history which brings me to my next point. Making a loudspeaker less accurate to the signal but more pleasing to our ears certainly can help with the issue of lesser recordings and it can also appease taste but then again is it accurate to the original venue? Of course not but I've found that accurate speakers have moments of disbelief with the right recordings that's very hard to ignore. I'm not going to try and put the sound into audiophile words but just say that it completely fools me into thinking its real, I don't say "that sounds fantastic" I just think that's its happening in the room and I don't question it.
All things considered, I'd prefer an accurate loudspeaker to one that further alters the signal beyond what is already a large deviation from the original spectacle. Argue all you like in favour of coloured vs. accurate vs. realism vs. recording. We all have an opinion/perspective and mine closely follows that of the recording engineer which is to get as close to accurate as is possible.
Oh my friend Shin and friend of Greg.....you would be amazed if you knew how much musical information there are on cheap and average discs.....but you are right, we all set our own standards from which we define good sound.....personally I wont waste time any more listening to HiFi....only music....maybe I am getting old
Nemophyle said:
An accurate speaker is as musical as the recording allows 🙂
Its funny because folks seem to blame an accurate loudspeaker for sounding poor when in reality its the recording, afterall, its only reproducing what its being fed, only in this case its doing so more closely. Once you realise this it really does make a lot more sense. Of course the loudspeaker always seems to get blamed first because we are unaccustom to analysing a recording as bad simply because we falsely believe that because coloured loudspeakers sound good with a wider cross section recording quality its then this trait that 'defines' a good loudspeaker - Wrong, we should question the recordings more and place more faith in accurate loudspeakers.
Quite simply put, nothing beats an accurate loudspeaker with a top notch recording. On the hand, play a naff recording and it can sound aweful but on the same token, a coloured loudspeaker might sound 'superb'.
For me, the whole audio playback system is a finely tuned machine that should be as accurate as possible and I then rely on the recording to be of a good standard. Its similar to a quality musical intrument relying on the person playing it to be 'talented'.
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