Oh, I'd agree with you on that and that's pretty much what I'd suggest to someone asking me for actual advice.
I recognize though that the last case (omission bringing no real harm) falls in a grey zone in between different schools of ethics and I couldn't quite blame someone considering he's doing nothing wrong. On the other hand, I wouldn't praise him either as doing something good.
I figured that was your stance, but like your latter paragraph, I wanted to leave you the flexibility to have a different stance without putting words in your mouth.
If Bybee makes med claims, that'd go through the FTC, as that's a communication issue versus manufacturing a drug and not calling it so. The domains overlap heavily though in this issue and it's really semantics.
We are all familiar with the current obsession of collection information, any information, about peoples' preferences, habits, personal data, etc, to be used in targeted sales activities.
How about exploiting peoples' ingnorance? For example, if you are a used car salesman, it would be of value to know that your customer knows f*ck all about cars.
This idea has been tested by John McAfee, the antivirus czar and US presidential hopeful.
A thought experiment with John McAfee | Spectator USA
What ye think?
Jan
Ignorance already is fully exploited. One example I faced in this part of Panama regarded glyphosate. People really thought it was harmless and improved harvests. I could prove that was wrong, providing articles first and examples later (one, I could relate damaging mud slides to the use of glyphosate). That was quite instructive: the machete now is used again to chop weeds and people literally see the health of their crops improve.
Regarding audio, one only has to sim an amp for IMD with frequencies 1.9 and 2.3 KHz (equal amplitude, full power) to see what some manufacturers are trying to hide. The general issue is that humans evolved for cooperation which requires a high level of trust / confidence. This is proportional to the perceived status, a phenomenon now abused to the full.
Jan, if the meaning of your insinuation is what I think it is, then your statement is unethical and worse.
So what do you really mean by your sentence in regards to Mr Bybee and his Bentley that you would be prepared to reiterate and prove in a formal court of any kind ?.
How about in a kangaroo court what would your version be ?.
Jan, I find slandering talk really really really unnecessary, this is parlour talk, surely you ought to be better than The Taterville Women's Auxiliary Sewing Circle !.....in jest but serious too.
Dan.
No idea what a kangaroo court is? But yes, it's parlor talk, this is the lounge. And I don't want to start a quasi legal discussion here, but I took the example I did because many here have bend over backwards to prove that these devices did anything useful and came up empty handed every time, have analyzed the product and found nothing that could remotely be construed to have any of the claimed effects, etc etc, ad nauseatum, and the originator remains silent as well. I guess in theory he could come up with some positive effect that all the others have missed, but I don't hold my breath.
So that's why I used that as an example, but there are many others. I used it more as a container.
Jan
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This has been bothering me for some time and keeps getting worse....
I don’t know if it’s like this around the world but society in the good ol US of A
seems to love getting it dry without a kiss goodbye.
And by this I mean it’s almost like to save a $ they don’t mind getting screwed....all you seem to have to do is make it look like a deal and some idiot will buy into it, even though knowing full well (or maybe not) the goods/services their purchasing are inferior!
“It’s all about the money boys!”......Big Dan
Bob
Black Friday comes to mind where it is not unusual to find 'deals' that are higher priced than normal. Or eBay prices twice as high as those from reputable distributors like Mouser or Digikey.
Yes. Here too.
Jan
Good Lord! Seems all's fair in love and war......and business.Yes. Here too.
Good Lord! Seems all's fair in love and war......and business.
Greed knows no boundaries I suppose.
I went to a Grammar School...... We had a geography teacher called Bates....oh what fun we had
So did I. We had a "Religious Education" teacher who would kiss boys... He was a total ****wit, but it seems astonishing now!
But the, the biology head was fired for growing cannabis in the school greenhouse.
Different times!!
(not to mention when we blew up the tennis pavilion...)
The question then becomes whether it is ethical to take advantage of people's ignorance. In this age of universal knowledge at anyone's finger tips, one could assume that ignorance is a personal decision, a way of life. In that case, why am I not allowed to take advantage of it?
Is it unethical of the Bybee's of this world to take a ride on peoples' ignorance and translate that into a Bentley?
Intersting question; while I don't mind Mr. Bybee ripping off rich idiots (after all, even hyenas have a very useful role in the ecosystem), I do mind any attempt to indiscriminately sell me the same crap. That I take as a personal insult.
Secondly, I find Mr. Bybee not even half as annoying as his unconditional disciples.
The question then becomes whether it is ethical to take advantage of people's ignorance. In this age of universal knowledge at anyone's finger tips, one could assume that ignorance is a personal decision, a way of life. In that case, why am I not allowed to take advantage of it?
Is it unethical of the Bybee's of this world to take a ride on peoples' ignorance and translate that into a Bentley?
Jan
If you were at a garage sale and found an article that you KNEW for a fact was worth hundreds or thousands of times the tagged price...would you take advantage of their ignorance in a case like that?
I think that it all comes down to how willing is a person to ignore their better angels in order to to satisfy their greed...
Mike
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Antique dealers often find themselves in that situation, but there is a code of ethical conduct
I have met some that laugh about these finds. What about both parties being ignorant like simply buying a painting at a yard sale because you like it and it turns out to be worth $250,000?
There are already big sectors of activities actively exploiting ignorance. Plenty of products are aimed at the least educated, taking advantage of financial illiteracy for example.
From an ethics point of view, I'd say if you use your knowledge of blind spots to deliberately feed false information, it's unethical. If you use it to omit negative information that is core to what you're selling, it's unethical. If you use it to omit information that would put you at a disadvantage but is not detrimental to your clients, it could be ethical (Kant might disagree here).
I'm wondering about a world where NO ONE knows better, as in the movie Idiocracy. On the other hand, there had to be a "first person" who lied about their energy drink being good for plants, and that person surely carries some blame for the near-collapse of civilization.
"Old computer board $25"If you were at a garage sale and found an article that you KNEW for a fact was worth hundreds or thousands of times the tagged price...would you take advantage of their ignorance in a case like that?
I think that it all comes down to how willing is a person to ignore their better angels in order to to satisfy their greed...
Mike
If you were at a garage sale and found an article that you KNEW for a fact was worth hundreds or thousands of times the tagged price...would you take advantage of their ignorance in a case like that?
I probably would, to be honest.
I must confess, that some time ago I was offered a scope for $ 20 on the grounds that it was broken, 'there's no signal visible'. The position of the switches and knobs was totally inconsistent, so I suspected that the trace was just off-screen or not triggered. I accepted and ended up with a perfectly functional 4-channel 300MHz scope.
Should I have gone back and offer extra money?
Jan
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