Define useless 😉 If I chose to buy it then I have a use for it, admittedly it could be in some bizarre way probably associated with some kind of personal gratification.
I think in the context of this discussion the point is that I spin a story to you which is totally untrue, and you buy based on my story.
Of course you may feel good about your purchase, not knowing you have been taken to the cleaners. But is it OK for me to do this?
Can we say, the fact that you didn't see through my story is your problem, not mine? Even if I know fully my story is untrue and I am deliberately taking advantage of you not being knowlegable in the field?
Jan
Of course you may feel good about your purchase, not knowing you have been taken to the cleaners. But is it OK for me to do this?
Can we say, the fact that you didn't see through my story is your problem, not mine? Even if I know fully my story is untrue and I am deliberately taking advantage of you not being knowlegable in the field?
Jan
Are you talking about the current US president or audio dealers - there's a scale onto which such cons can be mapped.
There are already big sectors of activities actively exploiting ignorance. Plenty of products are aimed at the least educated, taking advantage of financial illiteracy for example.
From an ethics point of view, I'd say if you use your knowledge of blind spots to deliberately feed false information, it's unethical. If you use it to omit negative information that is core to what you're selling, it's unethical. If you use it to omit information that would put you at a disadvantage but is not detrimental to your clients, it could be ethical (Kant might disagree here).
From an ethics point of view, I'd say if you use your knowledge of blind spots to deliberately feed false information, it's unethical. If you use it to omit negative information that is core to what you're selling, it's unethical. If you use it to omit information that would put you at a disadvantage but is not detrimental to your clients, it could be ethical (Kant might disagree here).
Nothing in particular - conceptually it's all the same, no?
Although those two examples are what we here at diyaudio are probably most familiar with, but you see it everywhere you care to look.
It must be a basic human trait. Which means I probably do it too, which is scary !
Jan
Sure, conceptually we all do it.
You do some work that earns you money - how to you determine the value of your work? Do you tell people who pay you how they could get the same work/products for less money? You pay someone for work or products - if you did it yourself you could do it for less money - where is the breaking point on the scale of what you will pay - it depends on what income you have. It's the economic structure around which society is constructed
All very philosophical but there is a scale to this picture that you are painting - it's not as black & white as you seem to be presenting it - not just about conmen on one side & ignorance on the other - I believe it's more about personal value judgements
Easy, start replacing equipment at the gyms with dynamo based bikes, rowmachines and oversized hamster wheels in place of threadmills.
This has been bothering me for some time and keeps getting worse....
I don’t know if it’s like this around the world but society in the good ol US of A
seems to love getting it dry without a kiss goodbye.
And by this I mean it’s almost like to save a $ they don’t mind getting screwed....all you seem to have to do is make it look like a deal and some idiot will buy into it, even though knowing full well (or maybe not) the goods/services their purchasing are inferior!
“It’s all about the money boys!”......Big Dan
Bob
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Jan, if the meaning of your insinuation is what I think it is, then your statement is unethical and worse.
So what do you really mean by your sentence in regards to Mr Bybee and his Bentley that you would be prepared to reiterate and prove in a formal court of any kind ?.
How about in a kangaroo court what would your version be ?.
Jan, I find slandering talk really really really unnecessary, this is parlour talk, surely you ought to be better than The Taterville Women's Auxiliary Sewing Circle !.....in jest but serious too.
Dan.
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My position is close to 00940's with a heap of virtue ethics thrown on top. Which is to say that knowingly using someone's ignorance to my gain, at least without making good attempt to educate said person first, would violate my own ethic. Even if that ruins a person's placebo effect.
But this is a problem that spans the timeline of humanity, but only recently have we been made more and more aware of our intellectual failings and weaknesses, cross coupled with new instruments (e.g. social media of all forms) to take advantage of our ignorance/mental weaknesses.
But this is a problem that spans the timeline of humanity, but only recently have we been made more and more aware of our intellectual failings and weaknesses, cross coupled with new instruments (e.g. social media of all forms) to take advantage of our ignorance/mental weaknesses.
Somebody who is wise knows their own ignorance, a fool is usually unaware of being ignorant, and a bully uses ignorance as a weapon.
I was recently trolled by a diyAudio member, who through their own wilful ignorance managed to make me feel quite sick by duping me. What a fool I was to think I could trust this person. Having crossed the line, they had the shamelessness to then go on to crow about it. Another equally sad puppy who follows me around while claiming to have a PhD (and is otherwise as thick as mince) seems to revel in weaponised ignorance by a continual condescension to the personal put down. Both are retired from lifelong careers in electronic engineering. What a waste, but then unfulfilled bullies are often popular with the weak minded.
This is an example of what the 'To Ignore' list is for - not that they care.
So yes, I would say ignorance is a resource.
ToS
I was recently trolled by a diyAudio member, who through their own wilful ignorance managed to make me feel quite sick by duping me. What a fool I was to think I could trust this person. Having crossed the line, they had the shamelessness to then go on to crow about it. Another equally sad puppy who follows me around while claiming to have a PhD (and is otherwise as thick as mince) seems to revel in weaponised ignorance by a continual condescension to the personal put down. Both are retired from lifelong careers in electronic engineering. What a waste, but then unfulfilled bullies are often popular with the weak minded.
This is an example of what the 'To Ignore' list is for - not that they care.
So yes, I would say ignorance is a resource.
ToS
I see, I hadn't come across those claims. If so, then perhaps a complaint to the FDA will get them at least a sternly worded letter.
Oh, I'd agree with you on that and that's pretty much what I'd suggest to someone asking me for actual advice.
I recognize though that the last case (omission bringing no real harm) falls in a grey zone in between different schools of ethics and I couldn't quite blame someone considering he's doing nothing wrong. On the other hand, I wouldn't praise him either as doing something good.
Thanks I never realized this stuff. I was at the first Libertarian party convention and sat on the floor in protest, it was obvious the movement was doomed to be nothing but an a$$hole magnet.
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