Hi Dinobe,
I understand your problem with zero. It is officially pronounced zero, it just seems easier to drop the zer part and just say O when discussing a phone number. Did you notice that? I just said phone instead of telephone. Same thing, 'tis the evolution of a language.
Let's see, if memory serves me correctly, Flanders is in the north so you probably speak Dutch (or is it Flemish)
Are there not similar problems with learning it too?
Cal
I understand your problem with zero. It is officially pronounced zero, it just seems easier to drop the zer part and just say O when discussing a phone number. Did you notice that? I just said phone instead of telephone. Same thing, 'tis the evolution of a language.
Let's see, if memory serves me correctly, Flanders is in the north so you probably speak Dutch (or is it Flemish)
Are there not similar problems with learning it too?
Cal
Cal Weldon said:
You bet. I can't for the life of me say "graag" ["please" -- an important word!] in a way that's understood. And getting "beurt" vs. "buurt" right? Forget it....
I see, you can say zero zero ... but that was to hard to repeat every time so it became 'o' Never noticed this before, good to know.
Yes Flanders is the north of Belgium where people speak Dutch.
South of Belgium is Wallony where they speak French.
But we say we speak 'Flemish' 🙂 to differentiate is from the Dutchmen living in The Netherlands 😉
We and the Dutchmen speak the same language, we use the same books, dictionaries... the only differance is the pronounciation.
I think Flanders is one of the only regions with such a small population and surface area that has so many dialects. You can walk 6km in either direction from a certain point and find already another dialect. Ofcourse you still understand them, but you hear that there is already a small change in pronounciation.
If we speak really flat, a Dutchman simply can't understand us.
I didn't have much problems with learning it (as a child) but I heard from many people (foreingers learning it) that it is a very hard language.
We have lots of vowel combinations:
rat = eng: a rat, the 'a' is short like in arm
raad = eng: advice, the double a is long and bright, sounds a bit like 'bright' without the j 🙂 braaijt : leave the i and j
de = eng: the, dull like in the
werk = eng: work, the 'e' is vey short and sharp like in help (but shorter)
reed = eng: (to ride), rode, (ridden) double e is long and bright can't think of any english word
dit = eng: this, short like in this
hond = eng: dog, short and like in dog
poot = leg (of an animal), long and bright like "oooooh that's nice"
hut = eng: hut, short like in hunt
buurt = eng: neighborhood, long and bright
combinations with vowels
ai = short; "aij"
aai = like the 'i' sound in bright, you and an 'ij' to the sound
au = like 'ouch'
ae= exists, not much used, mostly pronounced as "aa"
eu = like "eeeuhh I don't know this"
ei = can't think of any english sound
eeu = dutch: eeuw = century pronounced eew
ij = same sound as ei (don't know any english with this)
oi = oi oi oi !!!
ooi = same is aai but with oo 🙂
oe = sound like "book" but shorter
ou = same as "ouch" sounds same like "au" but can't be mixed
rauw != rouw: they sound the same bith rauw is raw and rouw means being sad when someone died.
ui: a bit like "euh" but more with and 'uu' sound 🙂
Think I have them all 🙂
And diftong combinations, the most hard is the difference between the 'H' and the 'G' dont know how the explain the difference
hout ! = goud (wood and gold) they sound very similar because there is no difference between the d and t (both are pronounced as T) but the H is open mouth, and blow air out form your longs while the G is open mouth with a 'scraping' sound...
Graag is indeed please or I'd love to.. the difficult part is the 'g' sound.
beurt: means turn (It's my turn now)
buurt: neighborhood
have fun 🙂 🙂
Cal Weldon said:
How about southwark in london or edinburgh in scotland.....
.....pronounced sa-thak and edin-brraa.....
MO VINT'O
Hi,
Gee...No idea this interesting thread was running.
No idea what part of Flanders you're from but where I was raised dialects tended to vary already from one neighbourhood to the next.
Oh BTW, compared to most of the rest of the world, we do have a dense population.
In Europe, only the Dutch are feeling even more like sardines in a tin can...
Flat? Plat?
......Believe you me when I hear some Dutch dialects I also have a hard time figuring what they're on about.
Cheers, 😉
Hi,
Gee...No idea this interesting thread was running.
No idea what part of Flanders you're from but where I was raised dialects tended to vary already from one neighbourhood to the next.
Oh BTW, compared to most of the rest of the world, we do have a dense population.
In Europe, only the Dutch are feeling even more like sardines in a tin can...
Flat? Plat?
......Believe you me when I hear some Dutch dialects I also have a hard time figuring what they're on about.
Cheers, 😉
Hi,
Just went through most of the thread (sorry for the ths, Dinobe) and find it rather interesting to see how people struggle with basic rulez...😉
Not that my English is perfect, far from it...It used to be much better and now it's worse, much worse.
That's in part all YOUR fault. It really is.
For the past few years you guys managed to make me doubt just about everything I ever knew was correct; be that grammar, spelling, you name it.
Mind you' I'm exaggerating but still...
If I had it my way and could vote, I'd say the British members are mostly well educated in way of spelling and to me at least are a welcome refreshment among other native English speakers.
Luckily there are a few exceptions that are a feast to read, RobM is one of them and no doubt there are a few others slipping my mind right now.
IMHO, it would do every member, native speaker or otherwise, a great favour if more people would pay more attention to how they actually write. In fact, they'd do themselves a favour most of all...
To me, speaking and writing correctly is like handing out a business card of yourself: it is how you're perceived by the community.
If you write properly, chances are you'll be taken more seriously as well.
Besides, isn't it just another way of showing respect to the other party?
I'd like to think it is.
So fellows, keep up the lessons and please, do come up with yet another of those typically English idiosyncracies I so much admire.😎
Cheers,😉
Just went through most of the thread (sorry for the ths, Dinobe) and find it rather interesting to see how people struggle with basic rulez...😉
Not that my English is perfect, far from it...It used to be much better and now it's worse, much worse.
That's in part all YOUR fault. It really is.
For the past few years you guys managed to make me doubt just about everything I ever knew was correct; be that grammar, spelling, you name it.
Mind you' I'm exaggerating but still...
If I had it my way and could vote, I'd say the British members are mostly well educated in way of spelling and to me at least are a welcome refreshment among other native English speakers.
Luckily there are a few exceptions that are a feast to read, RobM is one of them and no doubt there are a few others slipping my mind right now.
IMHO, it would do every member, native speaker or otherwise, a great favour if more people would pay more attention to how they actually write. In fact, they'd do themselves a favour most of all...
To me, speaking and writing correctly is like handing out a business card of yourself: it is how you're perceived by the community.
If you write properly, chances are you'll be taken more seriously as well.
Besides, isn't it just another way of showing respect to the other party?
I'd like to think it is.
So fellows, keep up the lessons and please, do come up with yet another of those typically English idiosyncracies I so much admire.😎
Cheers,😉
fdegrove said:
Alas, not even the Queen here in the U.K. speaks 'perfect' English.....
That disappeared around the beginning of the 20th centuary....
fdegrove said:
Mostly I think of me, sometimes I think of us, tonight I'm thinking of "U"
OK, fdegrove, how's this for people trying to learn the language.
The letter U and it's many pronunciations
bud...bud
buy...die
bull...pull
burr...sir
busy...dizzy
bury...hairy
beauty...pure
bouquet...bowkay
bounce...ounce
quest...kwest
surely...Shirley
I think I'll give Hawaiian another go. Anyone with me?
Cal
Spelled as pronounced?
Spur of the moment: a few tricky, 'w' ones - et alia - that come to mind
different meaning, spelling, similarly/identically pronounced
draught - draft (OK, this aint doubleU)
gnaw - know (norz this)
borough - borrow - burrow (ditto)
bough - bow (etc)
wring - ring
wrung - rung
wrought - wrote
right - write - rite
wreak - reek
rest - wrest
wrap - rap
We'll pass on all the -ershires.
Spur of the moment: a few tricky, 'w' ones - et alia - that come to mind
different meaning, spelling, similarly/identically pronounced
draught - draft (OK, this aint doubleU)
gnaw - know (norz this)
borough - borrow - burrow (ditto)
bough - bow (etc)
wring - ring
wrung - rung
wrought - wrote
right - write - rite
wreak - reek
rest - wrest
wrap - rap
We'll pass on all the -ershires.
Re: Re: If I were in charge of the English language...
The first is definitely a regional dysfunction as rather than a linguistic one.
mikeks said:
How about southwark in london or edinburgh in scotland.....
.....pronounced sa-thak and edin-brraa.....
The first is definitely a regional dysfunction as rather than a linguistic one.
In American English, these sound considerably different.
What kills me is words like "slough" which have two pronunciations and different meanings depending on the pronunciation. "Unionized" is similar.
Other anomolies
Loosen and unloosen - same
Flammable and inflammable - same
Dust as in dust a crop or dust as in wipe off - opposite
Also, there's no bone in whalebone, no rice in rice paper and no dogs in hot dogs, hopefully.
As an aside, for you Americans, the first coin minted in the states was a 1787 penny. Did it say "In god we trust"? No sir, it said "Mind your own business"
Hmm...
Testy lot aren't they?
Cal
Loosen and unloosen - same
Flammable and inflammable - same
Dust as in dust a crop or dust as in wipe off - opposite
Also, there's no bone in whalebone, no rice in rice paper and no dogs in hot dogs, hopefully.
As an aside, for you Americans, the first coin minted in the states was a 1787 penny. Did it say "In god we trust"? No sir, it said "Mind your own business"
Hmm...
Testy lot aren't they?
Cal
The tot was taught to keep the rope taut.
Different meanings, different spellings
So why is it they have to be spelled (spelt) differently? You recognize the meaning because of the context. Like that guy in the last post who used dust and dust as an example.
The mysteries continue.
Cal
Different meanings, different spellings
So why is it they have to be spelled (spelt) differently? You recognize the meaning because of the context. Like that guy in the last post who used dust and dust as an example.
The mysteries continue.
Cal
language
Thank heavens you're NOT in charge, Cal😉
What do you mean by 'our language' anyway?
I thoroughly recommend, to those who are genuinely interested in language and languages, Bill Bryson's 'Mother tongue' and Lynn Truss's 'Eats (,) shoots and leaves'.
Bryson (an American currently living in the UK) covers Cal's options in a very knowledgeable and entertaining manner.
Thank heavens you're NOT in charge, Cal😉
What do you mean by 'our language' anyway?
I thoroughly recommend, to those who are genuinely interested in language and languages, Bill Bryson's 'Mother tongue' and Lynn Truss's 'Eats (,) shoots and leaves'.
Bryson (an American currently living in the UK) covers Cal's options in a very knowledgeable and entertaining manner.
Not to mention neither eggs nor cream in an egg cream.
Don't get me started on "sanction" which can mean to allow or to forbid.
I don't see the sense in the dollars and cents spent on scents.
Or how 'bout 'head'. It means very different things to:
A corporate executive
A Neurosurgeon
A ship's captain
A delicatessen owner
A young man 😉
Cal
Or how 'bout 'head'. It means very different things to:
A corporate executive
A Neurosurgeon
A ship's captain
A delicatessen owner
A young man 😉
Cal
You like playing around on the edges, don't you?
I like shelled nuts. But are those in the shell or shell removed?
I like shelled nuts. But are those in the shell or shell removed?
Hey, Cal, I just got back from a few days in Toronto. When the weather is nice there, people like to get oat and aboat.
The funny thing was watching the news. The (obviously) Canadian-bred reporter stationed in Washington, DC, had been making an effort to use the US pronunciations of the "ou" vowel. He got it right about half the time, slipping back in and out of his Ontarian accent. Or "in and oat" as the case may be.
The funny thing was watching the news. The (obviously) Canadian-bred reporter stationed in Washington, DC, had been making an effort to use the US pronunciations of the "ou" vowel. He got it right about half the time, slipping back in and out of his Ontarian accent. Or "in and oat" as the case may be.