If I were in charge of the English language...

[Cal Weldon]

Among and amongst

Why did we add the last two letters?

Cal

 

[SY]

WE didn't, you folks with some queen on their money did. "Whilst" is another offense to the proper use of the English language.

 

[jeff mai]

And why do people insist on using "orientate" or "orientated" when the perfectly good words "orient" or "oriented" mean exactly the same thing?

What's next? "Relaxate"?

 

[Cal Weldon]

Compilate is another.

 

[Cal Weldon]

Just heard on the radio on my way back to the office

women are more "observational" than men

does it ever end?

 

[audio-kraut]

what gives?

The shorter form arose in the eighteenth century, the longer in the nineteenth. Orientate is sometimes criticized, but it is fully standard and has been used by a variety of major authors, including W.H. Auden, Margret Mead, Tennessee Williams, and Aldous Huxley. It is probably more common in England, while orient seems to be the preferred form in the United States.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37099

Just google amongst amongs from wilde to ... pervez??
Author Quote Preview
Phillip Adams You've only to walk amongst...
Minnie Aumonier There is always music amongst...
Christopher Bond Parochialism, poor information architectures...
Robert Boyle He that said it was...
David Bruce There was general consternation...
Desiderius Erasmus The more ignorant, reckless...
John Gay Of all mechanics, of all...
Dave Holland I think there is great...
St. Jerome Being over seventy is like...
Roger Knapman Many of you remember the...
Edward Koch The most guileful amongst the...
Lucretius From the very fountain of...
Dennis Miller A new poll shows that...
Hayley Mills It's like finding oneself...
Mary Wortley Montagu Nature has not placed us...
William Morris With the arrogance of youth...
Pervez Musharraf Is this the way of...
Evita Peron I am only a sparrow...
Thomas De Quincey Cows are amongst the gentlest...
J. G. Stedman I ever will profess myself...
Mao Tse-Tung The guerrilla must move...
Oscar Wilde The security of Society lies...


Enough quotes amongst us, or does someone need more to orientate his or herself?

Maybe before critisizing - look up who, when and why it was used. Just to throw it out because you're unfamiliar with it, seems to me bad policy, but only too common. Or should we establish an institution of a l'academy francais or the quebecoise language police?

 

[SY]

None is needed- we Americans tend to be allergic to bureaurocracies. We just keep improving the language organically, cheerfully shedding 19th century British anachronisms like "whilst" and "amongst," and saving keystrokes by eschewing the unneccessary "u" in "color" or "flavor" and the unneccesary "e" in "storey." We're slowly chipping our way through the mess that the British left us, and by the time my son is my age, we ought to have things pretty well cleaned up. If, like me, you have a particular fondness for the American language, Mencken's "The American Language" is an unending source of delight and gives some great insight into how the language evolved over its first few hundred years.

On the other hand, that very white third world country to our North is particulary fond of language police. Not even in France have I seen "Stop" signs saying "Arret."

 

[audio-kraut]

You continue your cheerful shedding of anachronisms, even when they are used by your representatives, I like those anachronisms as lingual antiquities. Maybe that difference in attitude is why very little protection was/is afforded to the sites of antiquties of your newest acqusition.

I hope your way of adressing your northern neighbour is not a signal for things to come. Mabe we should join North Korea for some nuclear protection?

Greetings from my igloo/teepee combo somewhere in northern Canada

 

[SY]

Maybe that difference in attitude is why very little protection was/is afforded to the sites of antiquties of your newest acqusition.

The site of my newest acquisition of antiquities was a local hamfest, where I cheerfully scooped up some vintage tube linear amps. Not much protection was afforded to the site, but not much was really needed. Folks around here tend to be polite.

 

[audio-kraut]

Folks around here tend to be polite.

what a relief.

 

[Cal Weldon]

posted by audio-kraut
Maybe before critisizing - look up who, when and why it was used.

I know the comment wasn't directed at me specifically and it matters little to me whence came the extension of the words. My criticisms are directed towards those who persist in their usage. What gratification does one receive from additional syllables?

Anachronisms at their finest.

Just to throw it out because you're unfamiliar with it, seems to me bad policy, but only too common. [/B]

Not unfamiliar with the evolution of the English language. Mother majored in it.

Or should we establish an institution of a l'academy francais or the quebecoise language police? [/B]

The existing Quebec language police souhait pour dessiner le sang on any violators. We don't need more of those nasties.

Cal

 

[audio-kraut]

My criticisms are directed towards those who persist in their usage

Can see your point, but the postings previous to mine gave the impression that those words were recent inventions

Why did we add the last two letters?

insted of anachronisms. Although the use of those lingual anachronisms can still make a language more colourful, and because of that I refuse to let those words just vanish or to be treated as rubbish.
It leads imo to a poorer, less expressive language.
We use newly created words all the time that try to give us a handle on a new reality, but why should that mean to throw overboard those words not any longer used in day to day speach?
Why should anachronistic words be thrown out just because the great unwashed do not know how to use them (and keep in mind my esl status)? A tyranny of the majority disguising itself as democracy?

 

[jeff mai]

what gives?

Enough quotes amongst us, or does someone need more to orientate his or herself?

I know the word "orientate" has been in common usage for a very long time, but it's only become "standard" because a lot of people misused it. As far as I know, "orient" hasn't been struck from the English language and it means the same thing. If we're making up synonyms, why not make up something more original than simply adding three letters?

Oh, and I saw someone use "relaxate" in print yesterday. At one time, the (non)word "orientate" would have sounded just as silly.

 

[Gregm]

That apostrophe thing again -- or

Has anyone else noticed a proliferation of the " -'s" thing lately??

As in, "Dad park's his car's in separate garage's".

It seems that whenever there's an 's' added to a word it's apostrophised . It should be ostracised (ostracise'd??).

"Life's trial's and tribulation's test people's feeling's to the utmost" (I made that up )

Is this software related, other, or just my impression?

 

[Cal Weldon]

If you look back through this thread you will see the s thing is covered rather well. Not it's incorrect use but the hows and whys behind the apostrophe. Especially as it deals with the its and it's. Some rules are just meant to be followed and others to be broken.

 

[KBK]

The one infallible rule of French is that every word is pronounced exactly the way it sounds.

A good discussion on rationalism...never gets off the ground floor.