Where is the logic? 'Trust only your ears in a blind test' is logic. ' I know how to use a scope and select things based on sighted listening' is not.
Let me guess, your taste in sound (yum, this cable tastes good?) cannot be described using any of the terms you use in your physics teaching?
If your brain and ears hear a difference, then they do. Who are we to say otherwise? But, no one should buy interconnects based on testimonials and what someone else hears.
If you are thinking of paying more per foot than the same length interconnect made with LC-1 and Taversoe plugs by Bluejeans Cable, you are a fool if you don't first listen to them good and hard.
If you are thinking of paying more per foot than the same length interconnect made with LC-1 and Taversoe plugs by Bluejeans Cable, you are a fool if you don't first listen to them good and hard.
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Problem is that the brain can detect things that the ear cannot. It's the way we are made.
That depends on who is the one claiming anything about it.
A simple logic tells us that an easy to change part of a
hifi setup as an interconnect or a speaker wire is, will be
subjected to all kinds of manipulation regarding its function
because humans are by nature creatures of belief and they can't
exist without one. The drive to improve yourself and things around
you makes it possible for all kinds of crooks to try to fool you
offering their lies of audio improvements.
It's there. And the data is made for any logic to be drawn.
Okay. Do you think you can beat me in a blind test? No, of course you can't because you are here because you can't, otherwise you would have believed me.
I think I'm also like you, very critical. May be more. But our data and experience is different.
To some extent it can (resonance, R/L/C). The Physics teaching and oscilloscope was mentioned, as a data, that I have at least not too bad a background in ability to link what I can hear with Physics.
And when I said my hearing ability is good, of course I have even compared with those younger ears (how many of them can you guess?). I prefer anonymity and don't like to talk about myself, but we all know that we need some background information to weight an opinion. That's also one of a few reason why I participated in a blind tests in this forum.
YOU NEED some background information when you need to weight opinions scattered on the net. When someone said how good amp X is, YOU want to know what other amps he has owned, YOU want to know how he assessed sound. Then based on this, you take a "risk" to build what he said is good.
That an example of your logic at play? I would love to try a properly setup blind test with full controls to pit your amazing ears against mine.
link please. Would like to see what you actually came up with.
You are confusing me with someone who gives a **** about what people on the internet say about sound quality. I build what either measures below known limits of human hearing (or the noise floor of my room whichever comes first), or that tickles my fancy, or gets me back to the halcyon days of my youth. It's a hobby. I certainly would never consider trying to claim I can tell someone what an amplifier would sound like with different music on different speakers in a different room.
And I prefer my main amplifiers to sound of nothing.
Why work "against" your brain?
When I swapped tones from LF to HF, at some point people started to block their ears and even scream "Sir, that's hurt!". This told me that it is not only my ears who experience this, but may be all ears...
The amplitude is decreasing (constant from the generator point of view, but decreasing from our ears FR of view) but there appears a "characteristics" to detect...
This, the HF, is the major point of so many debates, the root of all evils. If this is understood, I believe there will be less debate in audio.
I also didn't want to be tricked like that. But, alas, my enjoyment depends on it. You may have an amp with ppm distortion and convince your self that it is as good as it gets, have a piece of mind and enjoy the music... Me, I cannot do that. I have many amps with ppm distortion. My speaker drivers also are some of the best. But I couldn't trick my brain into believing that I have the best sound in the world. Actually I don't care. I just want to have enjoyment when I listen to music, even if it means to reduce the transparency (e.g. due to poor quality of sources). But don't get me wrong, I don't like tube amps (that I have ever owned or heard).
And, this feeling about enjoyment DO relates very well with Physics (it's not like a "trance" situation). When I don't like a sound e.g. due to different cable, I can clearly describe what I hear.
Usually, there is ALWAYS trade-off in sound (good here but bad there and so on). I need to think hard, what compromise that I would like to take. In this situation, I need to assess (and study) my enjoyment, which is close into a "trance" situation, but hearing a difference itself is not an issue. It is different, I just don't know which one is "better".
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At least I'm not confused why some people like X and some others like Y. You must be confused why people claim they can hear differences you can't, or why they don't like sound that you think everyone should like...
And why not try just for fun, create 2 recordings and let me guess what is A and what is B... you will have a chance to humiliate me
I vote with Dave on this - unless you've got a very strong need to dispose of your disposable income - there's still thousands of feet of CAT 5 cable going begging since it's now 'obsoleted' by gigabit networking.
CAT 5 cable is actually pretty good wire OFC copper, low capacitance teflon insulation, very predictable ohmic losses per foot - and since there's 8 wires in 4 twisted pairs per cable you can experiment with different topologies for different signals.
For small signal (e.g. <2V RMS) use it like intended as UTP (Unshielded Twisted Pair) for in-chassis, short runs, a single pair works a treat for both analog and digital signals - it's self-shielding and has very clean transfer characteristics.
For longer interconnect runs 2-3 pairs work well, depending on your components try either 2 runs with signal and ground on each run, two runs of two wire loosely wrapped with signal on one pair and ground on the other, or for S/PDIF use 3 runs with signal on 1 pair and ground on the other 4 wires which are then spiral-wrapped to approximate coax's 60 Ohm impedance - with proper strain relief such cables can easily extend 3-5 meters with minimal sonic effects.
For speaker cables, current and interaction does come into play, my Martian-Logan e'stats are fed with 32" runs of cat 5 with the signal and return carried on separate cables - a total of 8 24ga wires yields the current capacity of roughly 12 ga and seems more than ample. I also attempt to keep the cable runs 1-2" apart to minimize any back EMF or inductive nasties.
Cheers
Jim
Well, there's also lots of people who clearly describe the insides of flying saucers where they have been abducted.
And hotly defend their opinions with your exact same kind of reasoning:"but I have been there and you have not"
or:
"prove flying saucers do not exist"
Hehehe, so you want to propose a proper way to do it? My IQ can be quantified. Your IQ can be quantified. And they are not equal. So how can we quantify this ear thing?
Do you think Foobar ABX can be used? If so, create 2 files. If you can do 10/10, I CAN do 30/30. How about that?
It can't be both "unshielded" and "self-shielding". It is unshielded, and therefore only suitable for situations where this does not matter: balanced signals, short runs of unbalanced signals inside a metal enclosure. Within reason, the voltage level does not matter too much.Dr Jim said:
For interconnects (unless very long) the cable resistance does not matter, but the cable capacitance might. For SPDIF you need 75ohm coax, except for short runs; fortunately the digital signal is quite robust so it can cope with audiophoolery. I find it amusing that some 'audiophiles' are searching for the best quality 75ohm coax (as though the signal is fragile) while others are specifying the wrong cable (as though this is somehow better than the right cable).
Keeping the cables apart has no effect on speaker 'back EMF' but it does increase inductance, by increasing loop area. This increases interference pickup, thus adding noise which some may misinterpret as added 'detail'.
It is not yet 1st April, so why is your advice roughly the opposite of the truth?
Is there any theoretical benefit from using such unshielded twisted pair? I'm curious. Lazy Cat, for example, use quite long UTP in the input of First One amplifier. I did it only in my DAC input with cable less than 3 inches, simply because it is easier.
This is true (very audible). But I have no idea where the opinion regarding the "detail" or preference came from:
No.Jay said:
Unshielded twisted pair is often used for unbalanced connections because of faulty logic:
1. balanced connections are best
2. balanced connections used twisted pair
3. therefore twisted pair is best for all connections
Fortunately people often get away with technical mistakes because audio is not a critical use of electronics, and they can misinterpret problems so faults become 'advantages'.
I can't remember where I first saw this proposed, but it makes sense to me. There must be some reason why some people prefer to use awful cables - whether arising from ignorant DIY or 'high-end' scams.
Maybe he could have said that voltage drop at peak speaker current is the determining factor and then you may have agreed.
Certainly if your CURRENT needs are not high, then small cross section cables will give adequately low voltage drop.
And Planet's post19 states
implying that volts drop is the determining factor.
That is why I recommend placing the amplifier at the speaker and use very short speaker cables. Automatically ensures lower voltage drop and lower capacitance and lower inductance and all these have a small effect on the way the amplifier and speaker perform.
And it reduces the profit potential of any cable retailer.
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