I like the "EnABL" near the surround.
Ultimate 12" field coil speakers from Atelier Rullit - eBay (item 330411300513 end time Mar-11-10 04:19:23 PST)
Ultimate 12" field coil speakers from Atelier Rullit - eBay (item 330411300513 end time Mar-11-10 04:19:23 PST)
Wow, those certainly look hand made.
Yep, that dash pattern around the edge looks like what the Soviets did on their cinema drivers.
Will be interesting to see what they sell for. Current bid is not crazy.
Yep, that dash pattern around the edge looks like what the Soviets did on their cinema drivers.
Will be interesting to see what they sell for. Current bid is not crazy.
Just as some ladies do not need clothes, these drivers do not need boxes, they're so beautiful naked.
they look beautiful! Mr Rullit certainly makes some interesting things! Check his site if you haven't seen it:
Atelier Rullit projects
Atelier Rullit projects
I guess no one's heard any of his drivers?
That 15" monster is amazing looking--
Trip to Russia, anyone?!
Don
That 15" monster is amazing looking--
Trip to Russia, anyone?!
Don
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Totally Gorgeous!!
Why, Oh why do I have so little money 🙁. I would love to spend my time just buying and playing with toys like these!
Why, Oh why do I have so little money 🙁. I would love to spend my time just buying and playing with toys like these!
Excellent. I'll bet breakup effects are minimal due to the stiffening struts and the non-homogenous cone. This is just what I was thinking. I have ordered balsa wood to apply struts to some speakers I have here.
You're right.
I didn't even think of that. I suppose that's what this place is for.
The only problem is I don't know what I'm doing. I plan to try some spiral shapes and some straight spars.
I didn't even think of that. I suppose that's what this place is for.
The only problem is I don't know what I'm doing. I plan to try some spiral shapes and some straight spars.
This is not meant to be moaning but when paying a thousand bucks
for a pair of drivers i cannot listen to ...
i would at least like to have a wide spread impedance plot to see,
whether the truly impressive constructive details lead to the desired result.
I did many mods on drivers including self built cones,
dampening coatings, stiffening members, making the cone irregular by
applying different materials, slots filled with whatever ...
One is secure to me: You cannot cannot cannot judge a driver by its looks.
Even if it is full of visually (and with some knowledge of acoustic facts)
sense making constructive detail:
The 200$ driver beside having absolutely none eye catching detail
COULD be simply better. A chance for listening or at least some reference
would be good in that price region ...
The making of the voice coil feeds concerning material and guiding
looks everything but inspiring confidence to me, sorry.
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LA, do you have any test results you could share from your treatment procedures? It could give me a direction.
Hi,
i fumbled around with that since i was 16 now i am 44 ...
I would not say to be a driver specialist.
"It depends" what kind of driver you have got and what the
habits of the driver are that you want to change.
One thing i often did was applying a dampening coat to paper
bass/midrangers i used in 2 Ways.
One substance which can be used is PVA often used as white wood
glue like "Ponal" in Germany. Results in a merely transparent
and durable coating.
Mass will increase, so the Qts of the driver should be "ready" for that.
Leads to good results mostly and is for shure one of the "harmless" mods.
But since coatings got more and more standard it is not neccessary anymore
in many cases.
What i applied to some Fullrangers is a circular stiffening ring from
tiny AL tube, the open end of the ring can be closed with some wooden
stick e.g. appropriate glue has to be applied ...
Can be used to stabilize the center of the cone and works well for some
drivers.
Making slots into the cone tangentially (angle up to your creativity) and
filling with silicone or a durable plastic coating can influence breakup
modes positively.
Apply textile, which is soaked in damping glue to close the slots ...
apply strings of damper tangentially without slits in the cone,
do what you want ...
I mostly sat there with a sine wave generator, pouring some
cork powder on the cone and watched the chladni figures evolving
with frequency. There is no "Do this and it gets better" method ...
you have to find out the weaknesses of the driver, mostly there is
something disturbing in the sound - if you find out a correlated
breakup mode (and you can see something in the impedance plot
at that frequency) you have to get an idea what is going on.
Damping here ? Stiffness there ? Sometimes a little mass here ?
I gave up driver modding, but i think i was rather good at that.
You have to be aware that "you can't have it all". If you have a
hi eff lightweight cone and you chose to damp some breakups
it will not be as hi eff afterwards, maybe it will loose some of its
highs if you choose to coat the center near the voice coil.
If you choose to omitt the center then highs may standout
more unnatural than before ...
Just like that fumbling around, no science.
Your balsa idea might be ok, try it. You can bend balsa
rather good to fit a form when it is humid or you put it over
water steam.
When it comes to stiffening i would prefer AL tube rings, as
tiny as possible, radius as small as possible. But i never tried
balsa for that purpose. Balsa has very different stiffness
parallel and orthogonal to the fibers. As a stiffener it can
only be used parallel to the fibers. Maybe ovoid shaped
stripes (soft "rolloff" at the ends).
As long as you do not crash a 1000$ driver where is the problem ?
Use some cheap - preferably paper drivers - for training.
Wide Spread impedance plots and pictures of prominent modes with
documented frequency may serve to observe before/after effects
unless you choose a laser interferometer ... i never had one.
I found frequency response curves to be impractical because
you have to ensure exactly the same setting for a larger time span.
Sometimes not easy.
i fumbled around with that since i was 16 now i am 44 ...
I would not say to be a driver specialist.
"It depends" what kind of driver you have got and what the
habits of the driver are that you want to change.
One thing i often did was applying a dampening coat to paper
bass/midrangers i used in 2 Ways.
One substance which can be used is PVA often used as white wood
glue like "Ponal" in Germany. Results in a merely transparent
and durable coating.
Mass will increase, so the Qts of the driver should be "ready" for that.
Leads to good results mostly and is for shure one of the "harmless" mods.
But since coatings got more and more standard it is not neccessary anymore
in many cases.
What i applied to some Fullrangers is a circular stiffening ring from
tiny AL tube, the open end of the ring can be closed with some wooden
stick e.g. appropriate glue has to be applied ...
Can be used to stabilize the center of the cone and works well for some
drivers.
Making slots into the cone tangentially (angle up to your creativity) and
filling with silicone or a durable plastic coating can influence breakup
modes positively.
Apply textile, which is soaked in damping glue to close the slots ...
apply strings of damper tangentially without slits in the cone,
do what you want ...
I mostly sat there with a sine wave generator, pouring some
cork powder on the cone and watched the chladni figures evolving
with frequency. There is no "Do this and it gets better" method ...
you have to find out the weaknesses of the driver, mostly there is
something disturbing in the sound - if you find out a correlated
breakup mode (and you can see something in the impedance plot
at that frequency) you have to get an idea what is going on.
Damping here ? Stiffness there ? Sometimes a little mass here ?
I gave up driver modding, but i think i was rather good at that.
You have to be aware that "you can't have it all". If you have a
hi eff lightweight cone and you chose to damp some breakups
it will not be as hi eff afterwards, maybe it will loose some of its
highs if you choose to coat the center near the voice coil.
If you choose to omitt the center then highs may standout
more unnatural than before ...
Just like that fumbling around, no science.
Your balsa idea might be ok, try it. You can bend balsa
rather good to fit a form when it is humid or you put it over
water steam.
When it comes to stiffening i would prefer AL tube rings, as
tiny as possible, radius as small as possible. But i never tried
balsa for that purpose. Balsa has very different stiffness
parallel and orthogonal to the fibers. As a stiffener it can
only be used parallel to the fibers. Maybe ovoid shaped
stripes (soft "rolloff" at the ends).
As long as you do not crash a 1000$ driver where is the problem ?
Use some cheap - preferably paper drivers - for training.
Wide Spread impedance plots and pictures of prominent modes with
documented frequency may serve to observe before/after effects
unless you choose a laser interferometer ... i never had one.
I found frequency response curves to be impractical because
you have to ensure exactly the same setting for a larger time span.
Sometimes not easy.
I hear the point about ~$1k being a lot to buy drivers you haven't listened to, but if the sell-on price does not look like it would drop too much (and looking at these, I doubt it will), and you have the liquidity to do it, it could be worth a try.
I got into lowthers this way - was very close to buying a pair of vintage tannoys which I'd listened on friends' set-ups, but reading about fullrange and horns I was intrigued. Found some tired second hand drivers which I fixed up and some cabinets for prices at which if even if I completely hated them I could sell them on without too much loss after looking around a while and took the plunge. Turned out I like the sound a lot more than the tannoys.
I got into lowthers this way - was very close to buying a pair of vintage tannoys which I'd listened on friends' set-ups, but reading about fullrange and horns I was intrigued. Found some tired second hand drivers which I fixed up and some cabinets for prices at which if even if I completely hated them I could sell them on without too much loss after looking around a while and took the plunge. Turned out I like the sound a lot more than the tannoys.
Oh LA you are a bigger buzzkill than Buzz Killington, lol.
I'm not 100% sure I can agree that the problem and potential solutions differ completely driver to driver as ALL 8" paper FR drivers I have heard have had a nasty sound in the 1-4khz area although in differing degrees and frequencies within that band.
But you have to let the younguns go at it and fail, haha. Can't tell 'em a thing.😀
I'm not 100% sure I can agree that the problem and potential solutions differ completely driver to driver as ALL 8" paper FR drivers I have heard have had a nasty sound in the 1-4khz area although in differing degrees and frequencies within that band.
But you have to let the younguns go at it and fail, haha. Can't tell 'em a thing.😀
I don't know about anyone else, but when I read odd, over the top descriptions like the one in the ebay listing I tend to roll my eyes and keep looking for something that doesn't need ** to sell it. 😉
The photo of the builder doesn't help as far as I'm concerned either. 😀
The photo of the builder doesn't help as far as I'm concerned either. 😀
Am I the only one a little sceptical about the frequency response curve? Reminds me of the first time I measured my KLH 9s years ago. Didn't realize I was driving the mic preamp into clipping...dead flat from 100 Hz up!
David
David
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